Pretty Bummed About Our Current Repair Job

[Max Kaiser]

This is in regards to : RMA Service request: SOr-029557 (EPIC-X #00624)

I really love RED, but I've been really bummed about our current repair job.

We hand-delivered our EPIC and a few other parts for repair two weeks ago (Thursday, Jan 10th). We called repeatedly before going to ascertain the following:
1) Where we should drop off
2) How long it would take to repair

We were told we could drop it off in Hollywood or Irvine, that it made NO difference. We were also told if we gave them a heads up as to when we'd be dropping it off, we'd get faster service.

We told RED we'd be dropping off the EPIC and some other parts, the day we'd be doing it, and where we'd be doing it (Hollywood, since they said it didn't matter). We got varying reports on how long the evaluation would take from 1-3 days, to 1-5 days, depending on with whom we spoke.

We dropped the camera off on Jan 10th.

We waited....

Finally, last week, after 3 business days we started reaching out. After 5 days we heard about everything but the EPIC. Finally, today, after 7 days (and 2 weekends) we find out that our EPIC has a broken part which is backordered and they don't know how long it will take to get it in. We were told that there are no loaners available at the moment, either. We were told one of the reasons for our evaluation delay was because we dropped it off in Hollywood.

This is really upsetting news, and even more upsetting to find out so much further down the line than we'd been told, and that there was more I could have done (i.e., driven it to Irvine) to have made this go smoother.

We are a very small house in a remote part of the country that depends for dear life on our camera. We did everything possible, and by the book, to get this done quickly and efficiently and we feel that RED has done very little to make this process bearable by us.

Getting a loaner immediately would make this backorder bearable, not knowing anything, and getting information only when we beg for it just doesn't seem like the kind of customer service that understand who your professional customer is and the fact that these cameras are used in such a way that we need predictable repair schedules.

Is there anything that RED can do to make this situation better?

Thank you so much,

Max Kaiser

 

[Domenic Barbero]

sorry to hear Max. if you guys need anything in bham or seattle, let me know.

 

[Nick Grow]

Max, feel free to email directly at nick-dot-grow-at-red-dot-com and I'd be happy to look into this to see what we can do to make this situation better for you.

NICK

 

[Max Kaiser]

Just an update on this situation. After posting here I was quickly contacted by RED medic team to help ameliorate the situation. They had a number of potential solutions to help us out, and I'm happy to say we're on our way with our repaired EPIC scheduled to get to us in time for week's shoot next week. Thanks RED for coming through.

Sincerely,
Max Kaiser and Hand Crank Films

 

[Richard Fox]

Glad but not surprised that RED lived up to their reputation for excellent customer service. Just thought I'd share my recent positive customer experience. Dropped off an Epic for warranty repair yesterday at Irvine office. Was welcomed by a lovely woman at the reception desk who made me feel like an honored guest. Minutes after my arrival Alan Zarnegar came down to the lobby to assist me. He handled everything like a pro. Feels great to be part of the RED family. Thanks Jim, Jared, Ted, and everyone else at RED who have worked so hard to create such wonderful products, and wonderful service.

 

[paul schefz]

well, i guess i should have posted my experience here...
dropped off my scarlet in hollywood on nov 29th....camera was in QC on dec 11th.....beginning of january (!) i was told that a part was still not in, had a shoot on jan 17th that i had to cancel (this shoot was planned before i dropped the camera off....7 weeks earlier...) and finally picked up my new scarlet (RED ended up replacing the camera instead of repairing) 2 days ago....jan 22nd....so a repair that was supposed to be 7-10 days ended up being almost 2 months...yes, the holidays were in there but i was told to drop it off to make sure i would get it back before the holidays...

everybody was supernice everytime i talked to anyone, but as with an earlier experience with returned merchandise (30+ days to get a refund), from a management standpoint this is a nightmare.....my camera floated around for almost 2 months, i emailed and talked to at least 5 different people and always several times....QC, repair and in the end i get a new camera....a lot of people handling this, a lot of time wasted....all this costs money...RED's money....this is not efficient...and it is not cost efficient either....

i remember with leica, it used to be a nightmare if the camera or lens had to go to solms (germany)...that was a 2-3 month thing....a lot of that time was of course transport...but in that situation it was probably also THE guy who made the lens ended up fixing it....anyway they have a pro service now and everything is done within a week....

i guess what i am saying is that maybe RED is not set up to handle the volume the scarlet and i am sure the price drop has surely brought or maybe there is just no good logistics plan when it comes to repairs.....

at any given day red gets 5? 10? 20? cameras in for repair? how many people actually handle the repair? 3? 5? 10? it really should not take more then 3 days to repair a camera (if parts are available/in stock) the rest is just bad management.....

either way, i love my scarlet, i am happy with my new one and am saving up for epic and can't wait to see dragon...

 

[Les Dittert]

One of my Scarlets is there right now, it has a pin broken from the way the Red rear module end cap fits in the rear connector. I sent it in with my alternate optical low pass filter in, and this caused the 'evaluation' department to issue me an email that that filter would have to be replaced to bring the camera back to Red spec. Well, I had to tell them that the filter is just fine, and please just concentrate on the problem I sent it in for.
One reason I think it takes a while to process a camera is that they do a full 'evaluation' on it. Kind of like if you bring your car in for an air filter and they look at the brake pads and transmission fluid as well.
Anyhow, they also noted that 'seals were broken' and that would void the possibility of it being under warranty. I kindly explained that the seals were removed as part of the Red supplied so called 'Flare guard' kit that they had shipped to me and many other users for self install. With that , and some other communication back to the RMA dept, I am waiting to see what happens next.

I am not dissatisfied at all at this point, it has only been there about 1 week.

 

[Mark Toia]

Nice save RED !
I like happy endings

 

[Robert Hart]

I guess this is where the sell-direct business model comes undone a little. The other players have accessible regional distributors and local servicing.

For the RED camera family members which reside on distant shores to experience some loving healing, specimens have to run the gauntlet of the many tiers of air transport for just a one-way journey, - toss one from courier truck onto depot conveyor, toss two at depot onto conveyor, toss three from conveyor onto departure wagon, toss four on airside from the wagon into the aircraft baggage hold, the actual flight which can be quite violent if the cargo is in a rear baggage hold, toss five baggage hold onto arrivals airside wagon, toss six from wagon onto conveyor, toss seven from conveyor into depot, toss eight from depot onto courier truck, gentle placement on Red's acceptance counter for the signing of courier receipt.

It is something of a testament to the product's robustness that these adventures are survived.

Here in Western Australia, stuck on the forgotten corner of nowhere, we have a Sony certified professional dealership who I can drop a PD150 into and get it fixed, who even got me a part for a 30 year old C74 Sony microphone and actually knew what it was.

It will be interesting to see if the other players do not pull back and follow the RED business model or tout their established regional service networks as a loss-leading competitive thing.

In internet times offshore ordering is so convenient. It is often faster than local vendors can achieve due to just-in-time stock management practices. Downstream distribution and certified dealerships may become a thing of the past. They are costly to set up and maintain and may compromise intellectual property security.

We do live in interesting times.

 

[jimhare]

But the Red community also really sticks together. I know 4 people in WA that would probably happily loan you gear if you needed repairs. We're all in the same boat in the end.

In Sydney lots of us help each other out when we're short a bit of gear.

The Red community is the best in the world. Get to know your fellow owners and they will go to the ends of the Earth for you.

I guess this is where the sell-direct business model comes undone a little. The other players have accessible regional distributors and local servicing.

For the RED camera family members which reside on distant shores to experience some loving healing, specimens have to run the gauntlet of the many tiers of air transport for just a one-way journey, - toss one from courier truck onto depot conveyor, toss two at depot onto conveyor, toss three from conveyor onto departure wagon, toss four on airside from the wagon into the aircraft baggage hold, the actual flight which can be quite violent if the cargo is in a rear baggage hold, toss five baggage hold onto arrivals airside wagon, toss six from wagon onto conveyor, toss seven from conveyor into depot, toss eight from depot onto courier truck, gentle placement on Red's acceptance counter for the signing of courier receipt.

It is something of a testament to the product's robustness that these adventures are survived.

Here in Western Australia, stuck on the forgotten corner of nowhere, we have a Sony certified professional dealership who I can drop a PD150 into and get it fixed, who even got me a part for a 30 year old C74 Sony microphone and actually knew what it was.

It will be interesting to see if the other players do not pull back and follow the RED business model or tout their established regional service networks as a loss-leading competitive thing.

In internet times offshore ordering is so convenient. It is often faster than local vendors can achieve due to just-in-time stock management practices. Downstream distribution and certified dealerships may become a thing of the past. They are costly to set up and maintain and may compromise intellectual property security.

We do live in interesting times.

 

[Robert Hart]

Jim. I think you have made an interesting and valid observation. There is a unique culture or collegiate which has evolved, something which maybe was observable back in the days of groundglass adaptors when there was lots of unconditional sharing of technical knowledge.

The "community" as such is comprised of a wide spectrum of practitioners from well experienced DoPs to entry level folk have have bought their first ultraHD camera. By and large, I think it would be as you have stated. If my RED laid down ( assuming I owned one ) there are people here in the west whom I know who could help and probably would. To a smaller extent, there being fewer cameras running around, a similar form of support exists in the SI2K world. The forums have gone pretty quiet on it lately though.

In that sense, the RED plan, let's perhaps not call it a business plan, has become something more than just a camera system and a core business structure. Years down the track some social anthropologist will get an A for a comprehensive thesis on it.

 

[Simon Knight]

On a side note...

Does everyone recommend the Red Armour protection? Or is there a standard 1 years manufacturers warranty with the new camera anyway?

Regards

SK

 

[Brent Carter]

I hesitate to even comment as this is turning into more of a philosophical debate.... But, that being said, we closely monitor this subforum and I wanted to address.

One, we will continue to roll out authorized service centers and RED subsidiaries that can perform repairs. Will there be a RED repair shop a block away from every camera owner? Nope. But will we keep adding repair options in key areas, yes.

Also, once one of our repair facilities gets a camera in house, our goal is a 3-5 business day turnaround. Yes, we perform a very time-intensive IQC and OQC process that we refuse to compromise on. Sure, we will have peaks and valleys in repair volume. But you should be communicated along the entire process in those extended processing times. If you are not, then that is when you PM or email Nick Grow. He is our product support manager and that is what he is here for.

I just don't want the perception that we were unprepared for our repair volumes or that we are where we were years ago when it was "you have to send your camera to the US for each and every repair". I also don't want the perception that where we are right now in time is where we will stay. Will will evolve, we will expand, we will get better.

BC

 

[Jason Wingrove]

Just an honest observation.. people get the run around until they pipe up here?
j

 

[Brent Carter]

Just an honest observation.. people get the run around until they pipe up here?
j

I don't think RED would still be in business if no one got assistance until they posted on REDUSER. I know I wouldn't have a job, that's for sure. I don't give squeaky wheels oil, I try to make sure there are no squeaky wheels.

 

[Dan Frenkel]

"I don't give squeaky wheels oil, I try to make sure there are no squeaky wheels."

Nicely said Brent!!!:nads:

 

[Brent Carter]

Haha, thanks