Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

NAB 2024 - Rumors & Wishlists

Zack Birlew

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
Messages
1,435
Reaction score
85
Points
48
Location
Las Vegas
Website
www.babsdoproductions.com
Hey, everybody, since DVXUser is down at the moment, I thought I would start a NAB 2024 thread on REDUser since it's just months away! My previous list of anticipated releases for 2023 actually came pretty close to what came out, particularly the mirrorless Blackmagic Cinema 6K camera and the more cinematic focused Fuji GFX100 II.

Sony

This year I'm looking more for a new FX-style camera from Sony as the FX9 is getting a little dusty and is being undercut by the FX6, 3, and 30 pretty well while the 8K Sony A1 sensor is just sitting there waiting to be adapted to a pro video camera.

Also, Sony's 1" video lineup needs a major refresh or upgrade and going 6K or 8K with those would be pretty major, especially for the ghost hunters finally getting higher resolution night vision.

I would also like to see a new 6K or 8K 2/3" B4 camera that can be for broadcast or harken back to cinematic F900 days as the Blackmagic Broadcast G2 is the best bang for the buck 4K B4 camera at the moment and all Sony has to do is respond with a more advanced offering.

Canon

Canon clearly has its work cut out for it as they have several models that need to embrace 8K like the R5C has done for them. With RED offering such great RF cameras, I'm not sure how much better Canon can do other than building a more refined R5C Mark II and a bigger cinema model to go with it. Putting 8K sensors in their C100/300/500/700 bodies could be the simplest approach but then nobody really bought their C700 models as far as I can tell so maybe cost cutting and releasing a more sensible single high end 8K body beyond the R5C would be the best approach.

Panasonic

An 8K version of the EVA1 would be pretty great, especially continuing with the IR infrared mode switch feature which was the coolest aspect of the EVA1. Of course they have the S2H being sought after in the rumor mills so a small 8K cinema camera like that would be cool and expected with all the other competition having 8K models already.

Fujifilm

I can see Fuji having a cinema body which would essentially be the Fuji GFX100 II but with perhaps some way to record full sensor readout for 8K medium format video. That would be an awesome camera as they are really killing it with their GFX and XH lines for video as it is and they clearly have entry level medium format figured out with a great mirrorless mount option to boot.

Nikon

I think Nikon might be a surprise going forward as they have RAW video ready to go and instead of figuring out how to get Netflix approval for the Z series cameras, go ahead and release the first Cinema Z camera with RAW 8K+ video and all the professional video features and ports filmmakers and broadcast expect. The Z mount can already use Sony E and Fuji X lenses so they can add a lot of converts and cross-system users.

Kodak

After seeing Kodak release their Super 8 camera at CES, I can only hope that they have the sense to release a Super 16 model for professional filmmakers. Whereas the Super 8 model is definitely a hefty investment for consumers and artists, the Super 16 model would be for work and have more leeway in terms of price, especially if they can get a nice 4K HDMI output for digital recording as an option.
 
Hey, everybody, since DVXUser is down at the moment, I thought I would start a NAB 2024 thread on REDUser since it's just months away! My previous list of anticipated releases for 2023 actually came pretty close to what came out, particularly the mirrorless Blackmagic Cinema 6K camera and the more cinematic focused Fuji GFX100 II.

Sony

This year I'm looking more for a new FX-style camera from Sony as the FX9 is getting a little dusty and is being undercut by the FX6, 3, and 30 pretty well while the 8K Sony A1 sensor is just sitting there waiting to be adapted to a pro video camera.

Also, Sony's 1" video lineup needs a major refresh or upgrade and going 6K or 8K with those would be pretty major, especially for the ghost hunters finally getting higher resolution night vision.

I would also like to see a new 6K or 8K 2/3" B4 camera that can be for broadcast or harken back to cinematic F900 days as the Blackmagic Broadcast G2 is the best bang for the buck 4K B4 camera at the moment and all Sony has to do is respond with a more advanced offering.

Canon

Canon clearly has its work cut out for it as they have several models that need to embrace 8K like the R5C has done for them. With RED offering such great RF cameras, I'm not sure how much better Canon can do other than building a more refined R5C Mark II and a bigger cinema model to go with it. Putting 8K sensors in their C100/300/500/700 bodies could be the simplest approach but then nobody really bought their C700 models as far as I can tell so maybe cost cutting and releasing a more sensible single high end 8K body beyond the R5C would be the best approach.

Panasonic

An 8K version of the EVA1 would be pretty great, especially continuing with the IR infrared mode switch feature which was the coolest aspect of the EVA1. Of course they have the S2H being sought after in the rumor mills so a small 8K cinema camera like that would be cool and expected with all the other competition having 8K models already.

Fujifilm

I can see Fuji having a cinema body which would essentially be the Fuji GFX100 II but with perhaps some way to record full sensor readout for 8K medium format video. That would be an awesome camera as they are really killing it with their GFX and XH lines for video as it is and they clearly have entry level medium format figured out with a great mirrorless mount option to boot.

Nikon

I think Nikon might be a surprise going forward as they have RAW video ready to go and instead of figuring out how to get Netflix approval for the Z series cameras, go ahead and release the first Cinema Z camera with RAW 8K+ video and all the professional video features and ports filmmakers and broadcast expect. The Z mount can already use Sony E and Fuji X lenses so they can add a lot of converts and cross-system users.

Kodak

After seeing Kodak release their Super 8 camera at CES, I can only hope that they have the sense to release a Super 16 model for professional filmmakers. Whereas the Super 8 model is definitely a hefty investment for consumers and artists, the Super 16 model would be for work and have more leeway in terms of price, especially if they can get a nice 4K HDMI output for digital recording as an option.
Hi Zack I’m Felipe Gonzalez. Regarding Nikon and now with the acquisition of RED, you change your prediction and what do you think now? Thank you and Kind Regards
 
Hi Zack I’m Felipe Gonzalez. Regarding Nikon and now with the acquisition of RED, you change your prediction and what do you think now? Thank you and Kind Regards
Sorry for the delay, Felipe! Been having some house remodeling work done this week so I haven't been online much.

Now, as for the Nikon and RED situation, I'm siding with some of the other rumors that I've been hearing, particularly with NRAW no longer being updated, that the announcement for Nikon/RED at NAB will be a major firmware update for the Nikon Z8 and Z9 at the very least to have R3D recording options added in and to be essentially the first Nikon Z-mount RED cameras! I don't know if this will help add Netflix approval or anything but that would make them even more majorly powerful tools than they already are.

This would also jump start the Nikon Z mount for RED and get things going forward for the new mount system and we can see that there is enough product differentiation between a Nikon Z8/Z9 compared to a RED Raptor. The Komodo and Komodo X will probably be untouched for a while yet but the RF cameras are going to have to be phased out relatively soon in terms of product cycles as I don't know what RED's contract with Canon for the RF mount looks like but a Nikon-owned company servicing RF mounts is a strange and unprecedented situation, at least on paper as we know RED is still its own thing.
 
Sorry for the delay, Felipe! Been having some house remodeling work done this week so I haven't been online much.

Now, as for the Nikon and RED situation, I'm siding with some of the other rumors that I've been hearing, particularly with NRAW no longer being updated, that the announcement for Nikon/RED at NAB will be a major firmware update for the Nikon Z8 and Z9 at the very least to have R3D recording options added in and to be essentially the first Nikon Z-mount RED cameras! I don't know if this will help add Netflix approval or anything but that would make them even more majorly powerful tools than they already are.

This would also jump start the Nikon Z mount for RED and get things going forward for the new mount system and we can see that there is enough product differentiation between a Nikon Z8/Z9 compared to a RED Raptor. The Komodo and Komodo X will probably be untouched for a while yet but the RF cameras are going to have to be phased out relatively soon in terms of product cycles as I don't know what RED's contract with Canon for the RF mount looks like but a Nikon-owned company servicing RF mounts is a strange and unprecedented situation, at least on paper as we know RED is still its own thing.
Thank so much Zack for you answer. You don’t have any last minute?
 
As for last minute guesses, I was looking at the O-CAM business plan posted in the memory post for RED that's been going on and I noticed that market conditions seem to be VERY similar to the current 2024 market with $10,000 and below cameras making up most of the market and that there's a need to drop something big to change everything and embrace new thinking with what is considered a high end professional camera standard. Sony mentioned some super high megapixel sensor the other day which will probably be used for special purpose scientific stuff and not general photography use and that makes me think that if RED were to surprise with something then it would be an entry into the double digit resolution game, whether that's 12K, 14K, 16K, or even more, it would have to be something bigger than what they're already doing.

Like I said with my other rumor/wishlist, the ball is in anybody's court from this point on as we're seeing AI coming in to change the way image processing is done in-camera and in post but at the same time the industry is looking for major innovation to bring back the spectacle of cinema so with things like the Las Vegas Sphere requiring an 18K fisheye camera system, I think traditional cinema is due for a major upgrade in resolution and, if Fuji's lead is any indicator, maybe that means venturing into medium format video as I've theorized and requested on the site so many times before.
 
As for last minute guesses, I was looking at the O-CAM business plan posted in the memory post for RED that's been going on and I noticed that market conditions seem to be VERY similar to the current 2024 market with $10,000 and below cameras making up most of the market and that there's a need to drop something big to change everything and embrace new thinking with what is considered a high end professional camera standard. Sony mentioned some super high megapixel sensor the other day which will probably be used for special purpose scientific stuff and not general photography use and that makes me think that if RED were to surprise with something then it would be an entry into the double digit resolution game, whether that's 12K, 14K, 16K, or even more, it would have to be something bigger than what they're already doing.

Like I said with my other rumor/wishlist, the ball is in anybody's court from this point on as we're seeing AI coming in to change the way image processing is done in-camera and in post but at the same time the industry is looking for major innovation to bring back the spectacle of cinema so with things like the Las Vegas Sphere requiring an 18K fisheye camera system, I think traditional cinema is due for a major upgrade in resolution and, if Fuji's lead is any indicator, maybe that means venturing into medium format video as I've theorized and requested on the site so many times before.
It makes sense because reading several RED patents mention those resolutions.
 
You make an interesting point that @Jannard Jim could BLINK and make a new camera company at this point. Literally overnight, Jannard could create a new camera/company. Imagine if he released ONE camera like he did with RED ONE and priced it well below all others with specs well above all others, like he did with RED ONE. Actually I don't want that to happen but maybe a $7,000 camera. I mean Sony can make full frame high FR cameras for 7 grand.
I think what you say is an outdated idea!!
 
True they didn't finish their great idea to make a prosumer handycam.

They tried with their phone and their Raven.
The market is ready for a 5k 2/3 inch global shutter 1600 iso native camera with a 5-50 T1.8 zoom lens for a pocket S8/Hi8/Iphone replacement
With flip out monitor.
<3500$

Ok... I'm ready for it ;-)

Nikon?

PS and add a nice scratch mic and minijack in/out ;-)
 
True they didn't finish their great idea to make a prosumer handycam.

They tried with their phone and their Raven.
The market is ready for a 5k 2/3 inch global shutter 1600 iso native camera with a 5-50 T1.8 zoom lens for a pocket S8/Hi8/Iphone replacement
With flip out monitor.
<3500$

Ok... I'm ready for it ;-)

Nikon?

PS and add a nice scratch mic and minijack in/out ;-)

I don't recall "handycam" being on the roadmap. Then again, things like Komodo weren't on the roadmap either.

With broadcast adopting S35 and larger sensors most recently, I think 2/3" is largely a format that won't happen.

Keep in mind the sensor found in the latest iPhone is nearly a S16 sized sensor. Actually it's about the same height, but narrower on the sides as it's 4:3.

I think there's a place perhaps for a modern take on S16 for digital cinema, but I strongly think anything smaller is mobile phone territory. And perhaps, relatively soon, their sensors may grow further aw well.
 
I think for 2/3 video, we would end up getting more solutions like the Blackmagic Ursa Broadcast series with 2/3 B4 compatibility cropping. Right now they're the most affordable 4K 2/3 B4 solution so if someone wanted to use 2/3 video and at 4K or even higher resolutions, they could clearly crop a next generation S35 sensor.
 
I don't recall "handycam" being on the roadmap. Then again, things like Komodo weren't on the roadmap either.

With broadcast adopting S35 and larger sensors most recently, I think 2/3" is largely a format that won't happen.

Keep in mind the sensor found in the latest iPhone is nearly a S16 sized sensor. Actually it's about the same height, but narrower on the sides as it's 4:3.

I think there's a place perhaps for a modern take on S16 for digital cinema, but I strongly think anything smaller is mobile phone territory. And perhaps, relatively soon, their sensors may grow further aw well.

Old time 2008

It was the “Pocket camera”

“The Scarlet has a 2/3-inch Mysterium X sensor, 8X t2.8 Zoom lens, and can shoot up to 120 frames per second at a 3K (3000 pixel) resolution.”

IMG_7768.jpeg
 
Old time 2008

It was the “Pocket camera”

“The Scarlet has a 2/3-inch Mysterium X sensor, 8X t2.8 Zoom lens, and can shoot up to 120 frames per second at a 3K (3000 pixel) resolution.”

View attachment 3830694
Seeing that camera in person ages ago, I would say that's very, very far from a pocket or handycam.

I'm well aware of this particular model and I did say here on REDuser that I strongly felt that 2/3" 3K was a mistake. Fortunately Scarlet-X turned into something a bit better in most regards. I know it was desired by a few, but a 3K smaller sensor body wasn't exactly going the way the industry was trending at the time and still isn't ideal.

That gave me some nostalgia with the November announcement in 2011 and taking delivery in December of my Scarlet-X.

The last 2 years and clearly this year already is more broadcast interest in larger format (larger than 2/3" broadcast) digital cinema cameras. The real push actually started during the cancelled Olympics in 2020 and at that moment I've never seen anything like that go down in our industry. Mostly Heliums in that case in Japan. But they were never used for the intended purpose due to the pandemic.
 
What do you expect from Nikon acquisition of RED?
Short term, nothing different from our perspective and probably not for a while. A bit after that, likely some sort of implementation of REDCODE RAW in Nikon mirrorless bodies. Unknown if it will be called that or something like NRAW2 or whatever.

Products, specifically cameras, usually take some time to develop between sensors, hardware, and software. Unknown if next years cameras from RED would be effected by this acquisition if that ball is already in motion. I think Nikon may find a way to get H.265 potentially in RED cameras for those who need an even smaller codec. Don't know if there's an encoder or anything like that in current bodies to allow that. So maybe future on that front. If future, maybe even H.266.

Maybe in 1-3 years. Probably a sensor collaboration for future Nikon cameras using RED's sensor design team.

Short through long term. If I was Nikon I would keep mirrorless cameras under the Nikon brand and keep RED focused on digital cinema and production cameras. RED is already established in the motion picture industry (scripted, commercial, etc.) and that is one less gigantic mountain to climb if Nikon starts from square one.

Beyond that, between both companies, I'm curious what they may develop outside of this. Could be lenses. Could be anything. Nikon has a tremendous global manufacturing presence and capabilities.
 
Short term, nothing different from our perspective and probably not for a while. A bit after that, likely some sort of implementation of REDCODE RAW in Nikon mirrorless bodies. Unknown if it will be called that or something like NRAW2 or whatever.

Products, specifically cameras, usually take some time to develop between sensors, hardware, and software. Unknown if next years cameras from RED would be effected by this acquisition if that ball is already in motion. I think Nikon may find a way to get H.265 potentially in RED cameras for those who need an even smaller codec. Don't know if there's an encoder or anything like that in current bodies to allow that. So maybe future on that front. If future, maybe even H.266.

Maybe in 1-3 years. Probably a sensor collaboration for future Nikon cameras using RED's sensor design team.

Short through long term. If I was Nikon I would keep mirrorless cameras under the Nikon brand and keep RED focused on digital cinema and production cameras. RED is already established in the motion picture industry (scripted, commercial, etc.) and that is one less gigantic mountain to climb if Nikon starts from square one.

Beyond that, between both companies, I'm curious what they may develop outside of this. Could be lenses. Could be anything. Nikon has a tremendous global manufacturing presence and capabilities.
Hi Phil is Felipe nice to meet you. Nikon also has team of sensor developers, they could be complemented with those of RED
 
You make an interesting point that @Jannard Jim could BLINK and make a new camera company at this point. Literally overnight, Jannard could create a new camera/company. Imagine if he released ONE camera like he did with RED ONE and priced it well below all others with specs well above all others, like he did with RED ONE.

I'm guessing that Nikon has a standard non-compete / non-disparagement / non-disclosure agreement in place, so he wouldn't be able to go into the camera business for X number of years.
 
I mean Nikon is already in the camera business, for me it makes no sense what you point out
 
Back
Top