Mixing Red Raven and Canon C Log???

[Daniel S]

Is this a realistic approach to use my B Camera "5D Mk4" and shoot in 4K C Log and mix it with my Red Raven?. Basically i need the Dual auto focus for a few Ronin shots where I'm running with the actor and this setup is much easier to deal with for a one man crew. Its not for a Feature just short film that will be submitted to film festivals.

Thx for the help guys :smile:

 

[Mike P.]

Resolve Lite has a Colour Transform function which allows you to enter your input Colour/Gamma setting and set your output Colour/Gamma setting. (E.g. Input Rec709/C-Log, output RWG/L3G10... Or RWG/L3G10 to Alexa/LogC). No, it doesn't work miracles (magically make your busted ass baked 8bit turn into something good), but it might get you half-way there without much effort.

Conversely, even a mediocre colourist can get you within spitting distance... Though they'd probably opt to match the Raven footage to the Canon (since that'll be the lowest common denominator).

 

[Daniel S]

Resolve Lite has a Colour Transform function which allows you to enter your input Colour/Gamma setting and set your output Colour/Gamma setting. (E.g. Input Rec709/C-Log, output RWG/L3G10... Or RWG/L3G10 to Alexa/LogC). No, it doesn't work miracles (magically make your busted ass baked 8bit turn into something good), but it might get you half-way there without much effort.

Conversely, even a mediocre colourist can get you within spitting distance... Though they'd probably opt to match the Raven footage to the Canon (since that'll be the lowest common denominator).

thx for the info.

 

[Pedram Talai]

I have done this and was able to get them decently close, a better colorist can get them even closer. So it definitely is possible.

 

[Savannah Miller]

Color Space Transform is only designed for 6000K. Anything else and it doesn't work properly. On top of that, even if you're not a good colorist, you can likely get better results just playing around with the knobs vs. trying to use the color space transform.

My favorite use of it is to convert to xyz linear for adjusting exposure in prores materials just like you would with raw images.

 

[AndreeMarkefors]

Is this a realistic approach to use my B Camera "5D Mk4" and shoot in 4K C Log and mix it with my Red Raven?.

Well, you write "my" 5D mkIV and "my" Raven. You've got both cameras?

How about you tell us instead?

 

[Daniel S]

I have done this and was able to get them decently close, a better colorist can get them even closer. So it definitely is possible.

thx im still new at color grading so i didnt push my luck for that project but i will give it a shot on the next one.

 

[Daniel S]

Well, you write "my" 5D mkIV and "my" Raven. You've got both cameras?

How about you tell us instead?

im a noob colorist i bet with practice it should be good. Test in progress

 

[Daniel S]

Color Space Transform is only designed for 6000K. Anything else and it doesn't work properly. On top of that, even if you're not a good colorist, you can likely get better results just playing around with the knobs vs. trying to use the color space transform.

My favorite use of it is to convert to xyz linear for adjusting exposure in prores materials just like you would with raw images.

thats exactly what im trying to do but im not 100% happy with the results the Red footage look so much better...

 

[Simon_G]

Is this a realistic approach to use my B Camera "5D Mk4" and shoot in 4K C Log and mix it with my Red Raven?. Basically i need the Dual auto focus for a few Ronin shots where I'm running with the actor and this setup is much easier to deal with for a one man crew. Its not for a Feature just short film that will be submitted to film festivals.

Thx for the help guys :smile:

Hey Daniel,

I played around with matching it with c100 footage, I found you have to push the Raven stuff more to look like the other stuff.
The IPP2 selections helped with that.

The latitude difference forced me to blow out the Raven stuff more to make that match.
I found the Raven way more sensitive to the stupid fluro lighting as well, so was tweaking to clean that as well.

I got it to an alright spot that I and clients where happy with, most people are not looking for it anyways.
Specially if shot changes are dynamic enough. Sorry I couldn't help more and good luck!

Maybe let us know what you find works?

 

[Ryan Williams]

I played around with matching it with c100 footage, I found you have to push the Raven stuff more to look like the other stuff.
The IPP2 selections helped with that.

I don't have a Raven and I'm not a colorist either, still trying to teach and learn myself so take this with a grain of salt, but I'd echo what the others have said. You will probably be better served pushing your Raven footage to that of the Canon CLog, instead of the other way around. Should be more latitude with your Raven footage (depending on how you shot it).

Well, you write "my" 5D mkIV and "my" Raven. You've got both cameras?

How about you tell us instead?

Andree,

Usually I find your comments helpful/insightful and look forward to seeing you provide answers and help based on your experience. However, I'm really confused at this post of yours, as I find it unusually pedantic as compared to your normal posts. Additionally, I don't see how it helps OP out in any way, shape, or form. You've more or less told him to figure out himself, which I think we could both agree on, is not helpful at all.

 

[AndreeMarkefors]

Andree, Usually I find your comments…

Hi Ryan,

Thank you for your honest and to the point feedback. I don't mind that at all.

Part of the problem might lie with my effort for brevity in my post. The shorter the message, the more open for interpretation, perhaps?

It's always hard to know exactly how well two cameras from different brands might match. To find the answer one would need to have both cameras (if by ownership or rental) to test under identical conditions. Our OP, Daniel, is in an unusually good spot since he seems to have both. In general, I'd agree with you that the approach is to match the "better" camera to the "lesser" camera.

While I haven't shot the 5D mkIV, I own both the 1Dc and the 1Dx mkII and I'm familiar with Canon Log and the .mjpeg codec. It is entirely possible to create good looking images with the 5D mkIV and the Raven would then need to be matched to that.

In terms of the 'unhelpfulness' of my answer, I don't quite agree. I guess it could be read as one of those "let me google that for you" answers, where you just enter whatever someone is asking for into Google as a "slap on the wrist", meaning they should look for themselves instead of asking. While those answers certainly are warranted sometimes, that wasn't my intention here.

I do a lot of self education via video tutorials. That is, I'm the one trying to learn. Mostly compositing and 3D software techniques. I can't tell you how easy it is to fall into the trap where you listen to someone who is good at what they're doing explain technique after technique and everything seems CRYSTAL CLEAR. Yet, a few hours later when I'm sitting in front of a blank canvas I go.... "hmmm.... how was that now again?". Video training is GREAT, but you really need to dig in yourself in parallel and go through the motions. Even making mistakes and running into walls can be very helpful (even if it doesn't seem like that at that very moment).

My answer was more meant as a nudge: "let me help you help yourself". At the end of the day Daniel is the one who needs to match the footage anyway. If he has got both cameras, why not start building experience right away?

If Daniel wanted our help in a more practical fashion, he understands that he should provide a few seconds of footage from each camera. Then we call could dig in and have a closer look.

 

[Daniel S]

thx Andre, wont lie im far from being a novice colorist so i decided to pass on mixing the footage on this project just to be safe. But i will try a few tests on the side with B rolls only this should be a good practice for me.

 

[Alfred Sadler]

thats exactly what im trying to do but im not 100% happy with the results the Red footage look so much better...

Hey man, I've been trying to get on the forum for months trying to reply to this! I have a Raven and an EOS R. I found the ColorMatch feature in Resolve incredibly powerful.

The first thing you need is an Xrite Color Checker. You need to place it in shot and record it in the lighting conditions for each camera. See this video for more details on how to use the feature https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T92Y0VBxfH4

I've used the Color Match at 5600k with no issues, the only problems I ever have is grading in rec.709 and getting feedback form people watching on iPhones with True Tone and Night Shift on :')

Here is a music video I shot (zero budget) using the two cameras. This was also my first time mixing them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7lzkrXrcME

I hope this information is still going to be useful for you and I'm not too late!!

 

[Kelly Conlin]

Agree! I've matched R3D with lots of camera footage from other cameras, use a grey card and place it in front of both cameras when filming. That will be your white balance colour reference in post and you can match more easily from there. I also suggest usomg your scopes in post production, they will easily highlight the colour shifts between cameras if you view both grey cards side by side and look at the scopes.

 

[Daniel S]

Hey man, I've been trying to get on the forum for months trying to reply to this! I have a Raven and an EOS R. I found the ColorMatch feature in Resolve incredibly powerful.

The first thing you need is an Xrite Color Checker. You need to place it in shot and record it in the lighting conditions for each camera. See this video for more details on how to use the feature https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T92Y0VBxfH4

I've used the Color Match at 5600k with no issues, the only problems I ever have is grading in rec.709 and getting feedback form people watching on iPhones with True Tone and Night Shift on :')

Here is a music video I shot (zero budget) using the two cameras. This was also my first time mixing them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7lzkrXrcME

I hope this information is still going to be useful for you and I'm not too late!!

2yrs later sorry... thx for the reply turns out it was great but now I will be replacing my 5d mk4 with a Komodo for my B camera. I waited so long for Red to drop a functional AF I can work with.

 

[Daniel S]

Agree! I've matched R3D with lots of camera footage from other cameras, use a grey card and place it in front of both cameras when filming. That will be your white balance colour reference in post and you can match more easily from there. I also suggest usomg your scopes in post production, they will easily highlight the colour shifts between cameras if you view both grey cards side by side and look at the scopes.

thank you the footage was better than expected and I think average people can't even tell the difference only filmmaker's can lol