Group Buy: Budget CRI 95 LED Strip Lights

[Sean Solowiej]

I have just been blocked from Brandon's KoraLED Facebook group. This happened once before when I started asking Brandon for information about my order. Afterward he quickly reinstated my membership when I brought up the legality of it.

Brandon,

Thank you for confirming that I am not and never was in the group buy, but am in fact a customer of your business KoraLED. When I tried getting my funds returned for non-fulfillment you used the Group Buy as the reason I technically did not make any direct purchase from you, but just contributed to a crowd funded project and therefore could not expect any refund. This clarification is helpful.

I ordered a total of six mats from you. Four Standard Variable Mats and Two Soft Variable Mats. This past June you shipped me two Standard Variable Mats, then marked four as fulfilled on your site. I am owed four matts: Two Standard and Two Soft. If soft are not shipping now, I will take the Standard ones instead to be done with it.

Likewise, you have sent me a total of four controllers and marked all six that I ordered as fulfilled on your site. I am owed a total of two more controllers.

Four Mats, Two Controllers.

I have not ordered or commented anywhere about power supplies, as I use only my own 12V battery sources. I did make a sincere post about enjoying the fact that I was recently able to use two of your Mats on a project.

I have tried communicating via Facebook, but my messages there were ignored and not posted. When your customers have no functional option, we move to whatever we have left. Reduser. When that is not working, our last reasonable recourse is the legal system.

 

[PC Greene]

Sean - and anyone else with a complaint about this Group Buy, please contact me per my August post at pcg@flightav.com.

I understand everyone's frustrations but honestly can't believe how unkind and unreasonable a very few minority folks are being about a GROUP BUY WE ALL KNEW THE RISKS INVOLVED IN BEFORE JOINING IT.

Brandon has experienced not one but multiple life threatening health issues which would've been more than enough for most to abandon this project (All us Kickstarter supporters know how that feels!) yet he continues to make good and ship product at very low prices that make our careers easier as film makers.

Again, IF YOU WANT OUT - SEND ME YOUR ORIGINAL INVOICE PROVING WHAT YOU PAID AND WHEN AND I WILL MAKE YOU A BUY OUT OFFER.

I remember being part of "The Beast" Gimbal Group Buy where me and many others lost in excess of $5000 per unit and there wasn't as much crying as I've seen here for significantly less money and VERY different circumstances. Honestly I feel like the VERY most unpleasant folks in the group buy should put a fraction of their angst and attention about some inexpensive lights into, ya know THEIR WORK AND CAREER but whatever. You want out, HMU and I will figure a FAIR way out for you. To be clear, this does NOT involve your inventing and exaggerating your costs so you can PROFIT from my offer as several have tried to do already

Looking forward to speaking directly with whomever wants to take me up on this opportunity. Thanks for being the emotionally mature, reasonable, compassionate film and TV professionals I know most people on these boards to be and have a good day.

 

[PC Greene]

Nathan - per our last discussions, please send me a copy of your original invoice with Brandon. The figures you quoted me were verifiably significantly higher than the actual pricing for the units and I find your attempting to profit from my kind offer disingenuous at best.

Thanks for being civil and figuring this out. For anyone else interested in my August post PLEASE EMAIL ME INSTEAD OF DMing me here...unlike these 4 people raging about lights, I actually shoot and work and ya know, have a career so don't have an abundance of time to get pissy about a few hundred dollars in lights I know will becoming (and will be great and worth far more when they do).

 

[Nathaniel Haban]

Nathan - per our last discussions, please send me a copy of your original invoice with Brandon. The figures you quoted me were verifiably significantly higher than the actual pricing for the units and I find your attempting to profit from my kind offer disingenuous at best.

Thanks for being civil and figuring this out. For anyone else interested in my August post PLEASE EMAIL ME INSTEAD OF DMing me here...unlike these 4 people raging about lights, I actually shoot and work and ya know, have a career so don't have an abundance of time to get pissy about a few hundred dollars in lights I know will becoming (and will be great and worth far more when they do).

Turns out Brandon deleted my account, destroying corporate records, including the invoices.

 

[Brandon J.F.]

Turns out Brandon deleted my account, destroying corporate records, including the invoices.

It all went through PayPal.

And no, I did not delete your PayPal account or the invoices out of your email.

 

[Nathaniel Haban]

It all went through PayPal.

And no, I did not delete your PayPal account or the invoices out of your email.

And yet, every time I try to log in to my account on Koraled.com, it says "no account found with that email". So you're saying this is a website error?

 

[Brandon J.F.]

And yet, every time I try to log in to my account on Koraled.com, it says "no account found with that email." So you're saying this is a website error?

Every order you ever made with KoraLED, all $166 worth, was already refunded forever ago.

You know this.

You are threatening legal action against a company that you have no "marketplace relationship" with.

You have someone two posts up still offering to buy your group buy order. Maybe stop fighting with me and talk to them.

 

[Nathaniel Haban]

Every order you ever made with KoraLED was already refunded forever ago.

You know this.

You are threatening legal action against a company that you have no "marketplace relationship" with.

You have someone two posts up still offering to buy your group buy order. Maybe stop fighting with me and talk to them.

That's not a denial of deleting corporate records...

And there are multiple people on this forum accusing you of destroying and/or falsifying records.

 

[Brandon J.F.]

That's not a denial of deleting corporate records...

And there are multiple people on this forum accusing you of destroying and/or falsifying records.

You can't keep throwing out bullshit accusations like this, Nate. Do a Google search for the word defamation. Have an adult explain it to you. I have screenshots of everything including the threats you have made to me privately, old and new.

 

[PC Greene]

Nate - just please stop as there is nothing remotely useful or helpful regarding your approach.

If you want out, YOU CAN GET OUT - JUST WRITE ME AS INDICATED MANY MONTHS AGO and we will make a more than fair offer. You knew the risks - as we all did- when you signed on for a group buy. Kickstarter terms of service are very clear, as are the risks associated with ANY group buy. To you and to anyone feeling SO miserable about a simple small lighting group buy, get in touch with me per my post above and get on with your life and career, as there is truly nothing to see here, but a really great guy who has spent years of his life trying to help the community while battling life threatening illnesses that would've overcome most by now.

Thank you for being reasonable productive and compassionate.

 

[Nathaniel Haban]

Nate - just please stop as there is nothing remotely useful or helpful regarding your approach.

If you want out, YOU CAN GET OUT - JUST WRITE ME AS INDICATED MANY MONTHS AGO and we will make a more than fair offer. You knew the risks - as we all did- when you signed on for a group buy. Kickstarter terms of service are very clear, as are the risks associated with ANY group buy. To you and to anyone feeling SO miserable about a simple small lighting group buy, get in touch with me per my post above and get on with your life and career, as there is truly nothing to see here, but a really great guy who has spent years of his life trying to help the community while battling life threatening illnesses that would've overcome most by now.

Thank you for being reasonable productive and compassionate.

Again.... Don't know how I can be more clear about this... Brandon has deleted my account, effectively destroying important information, invoices, payment histories, etc.

1) This isn't a matter of people being "pissy" about "a few hundred dollars". The total amount of unshipped product from people who have contacted me is nearly $10,000. And those are just the people who have contacted me.

2) Brandon has refused refunds. Despite issuing refunds in the past, or the fact he cannot articulate ANY 'no refunds' policy, and is generally just making stuff up as he goes. Plus, he dumps his responsibilities off onto you.

3) Any criticism is met with bannings from websites associated with Kora, and ignoring all attempts at contact.

4) As we've hear from multiple people, he is actively manipulating customer data and deleting accounts.

5) People have waited over 5 years now, after first guaranteeing we would see product by January, 2015.

So please.... Those who are pissed have a right to be.

 

[PC Greene]

Nate - in my many years of living and being a professional, I have learned all to well that some people just want to watch the world burn. Are you one of those people? I hope not. For the LAST TIME - *if you want out - I am willing to buy you out per the terms listed in August*. You have spent in excess of $100,000 on your cameras alone and I could care less about "those who have contacted you" - as YOUR out of pocket personally is a fraction of that and IMHO NOT something that warrants such ugly obsessive borderline abusive behavior.

I made an offer yesterday to a group buy member I think is more than fair for 80% of their buy out fee. To continue raging about something neither you NOR BRANDON can do anything about is utterly pointless and futile and accomplishes literally nothing as there is literally nothing you or any of us can do to "force" a different or sooner outcome.

Please, let me know if I can help you move on by buying you out buddy, or hang in for the assured eventual resolution of things, as Brandon very well could have - *but thankfully is not* - abandoning us all due to the tragic and absolutely unforeseeable health issues and financial complications from his very kind and inspired idea to create low cost high quality lighting products for our industry.

I look forward to hearing from you *and any others that can't wait another damn second for their lights or refund* to contact me and I will do my marked best to find a reasonable solution for you.

Light luck love and infinite success in ALL your ventures folks...please, go forth and make art

 

[Nathaniel Haban]

Nate - in my many years of living and being a professional, I have learned all to well that some people just want to watch the world burn. Are you one of those people? I hope not. For the LAST TIME - *if you want out - I am willing to buy you out per the terms listed in August*. You have spent in excess of $100,000 on your cameras alone and I could care less about "those who have contacted you" - as YOUR out of pocket personally is a fraction of that and IMHO NOT something that warrants such ugly obsessive borderline abusive behavior.

I made an offer yesterday to a group buy member I think is more than fair for 80% of their buy out fee. To continue raging about something neither you NOR BRANDON can do anything about is utterly pointless and futile and accomplishes literally nothing as there is literally nothing you or any of us can do to "force" a different or sooner outcome.

Please, let me know if I can help you move on by buying you out buddy, or hang in for the assured eventual resolution of things, as Brandon very well could have - *but thankfully is not* - abandoning us all due to the tragic and absolutely unforeseeable health issues and financial complications from his very kind and inspired idea to create low cost high quality lighting products for our industry.

I look forward to hearing from you *and any others that can't wait another damn second for their lights or refund* to contact me and I will do my marked best to find a reasonable solution for you.

Light luck love and infinite success in ALL your ventures folks...please, go forth and make art

So your offer is.... you'll let me dump my lights at a loss? And if I think that's unreasonable, then I'm the one who's out of line?

 

[vincent kardasik]

Hi there,

As I'm probably desperate as most of you here (and I have been part of the BeSteady GB back in the days so been there done that), I'm still trying to figure options to make my set-up works.

I know or I think it's possible to make a couple LED strips work on one controller but with the 12V power supply, it doesn't seem to be enough.

Anyone has a recommendation or knows where I can purchase a more powerful power supply?

 

[Brandon J.F.]

I know or I think it's possible to make a couple LED strips work on one controller but with the 12V power supply, it doesn't seem to be enough.

Anyone has a recommendation or knows where I can purchase a more powerful power supply?

The power supplies in the group buy are rated at 120 watts (12V 10A) and aren't really meant for more than one roll but the controllers can handle up to 480 watts at 12V (~4x 12V rolls) or 960 watts at 24V (~8x 24V rolls). The group buy strips are all 12V.

You can get a larger 12V power supply (e.g. 20A, 40A, etc) or hook more than one identical group buy power supply to the controller (there are multiple DC input terminals). Keep in mind that the higher amp power supplies usually have fans but if that's ok you can probably find a kit style one locally at any store selling LED lighting for the home.

 

[vincent kardasik]

The power supplies in the group buy are rated at 120 watts (12V 10A) and aren't really meant for more than one roll but the controllers can handle up to 480 watts at 12V (~4x 12V rolls) or 960 watts at 24V (~8x 24V rolls). The group buy strips are all 12V.

You can get a larger 12V power supply (e.g. 20A, 40A, etc) or hook more than one identical group buy power supply to the controller (there are multiple DC input terminals). Keep in mind that the higher amp power supplies usually have fans but if that's ok you can probably find a kit style one locally at any store selling LED lighting for the home.

Noted, thanks

 

[James Jetel]

I’m surprised to see this thread still going, it has long outlived its usefulness to the larger community. I imagine everyone who needs to contact Brandon has a method of doing so.

If there’s a way to lock the thread, it’s high time.

Karl Kim’s post below seems to be the most accurate and fair-minded post mortem of the entire saga. If anything has to stand as a gravestone, I argue that his post be it.

I would say that in its place, there should be a single post thread cataloguing what the original participants are still owed, and the status of their orders. I think this includes strips, controllers, and DIY power kits.

For anything further, which I believe is mats, power supplies, frames, perhaps there should be a separate thread or email group. This should only contain order statuses and manufacturing updates. I’m happy to facilitate either of these posts, I want them to serve as a productive way to receive what we are owed.

Kickstarter-style group buys have inherent risks, and this has been a fraught and painful learning experience for everyone involved. This isn’t the first time most of us have had something go south of how we thought it would. For one reason or another, things were overpromised and underdelivered. Even on this forum, I remember buying the Cinegears WFF, and being woefully disappointed. Such experiences have taught me that you need to be a powerful and persistent advocate for yourself.

I’ve received many of the products I’ve paid for including all my controllers and strips. I’ve also not received many of the products I paid for. I’ve received mats that were the product of a bad manufacturing run, they were printed incorrectly with them being 24V -, instead of 24V+. I think this was a devastating occurrence for the progress of the order fulfillment. A manufacturer error that left little to no recourse and a new MOQ to fill.

Anyone who has done business in China would be familiar with the idea of “it’s our fault, but it’s your problem” I’ve also tested bicolor mats that work splendidly, they put out a ton of light and the color is great, I’m happy to share pics with anyone who PMs. The products work when we have them. I suspect getting them to us has proven much more difficult and expensive than originally anticipated.

I’m still waiting on power supplies and more mats. Karl’s post rings true to me, I think Brandon has made mistakes in how he handled the group buys, and should’ve waited to finish one before moving to the other. I think he put too much stock in a good product being worth the wait, vs having a product now. A great product doesn’t do us any good if we can’t have it. We were all prey to our own excitement to have great LEDs at an affordable price. If it had all turned out correctly, we’d have a great thread with tutorials and posts of our DIY fixtures and we could help eachother in creating some very useful and set-durable fixtures. It should’ve been that, there could still be that, but currently it is not that.

I think we are all owed delivery of the products promised, I also think we all should value our time more than slinging mud at each other on a forum. I suspect, just like Karl, that the sort of flailing on display in previous posts, will be counterproductive to the many parties still trying to receive their duly paid for items. A lawsuit will net nothing more than delay or failure of the owed products - read as: ruining it for the rest of us. I still want my stuff, please don’t ruin it with a self righteous crusade.

If I were in the situation where PC or someone was offering to buy my order at 80% or what have you, I’d take it just to move on with my life. Let him deal with receiving the items. The perfect is the enemy of the good here. Whatever injustice you feel has been done to you, find your way to move past it, because there is nothing there but wasted time and raised stress levels. Which, as we all know, make us fat.

Mods, please lock this thread. Sticky a reminder for all group-buys - caveat emptor. If anyone has questions about contacting Brandon, I’ve found success via the Facebook group. PM me if you need me to point you in the direction of it.

Well, you could start a class action lawsuit, but after all these years (is it now 5 years?) what will be gained, or more importantly, what will be recovered? For myself, this may still fall under small claims court limits ($3K and $5K for larger cities- last time I checked).

To be clear, I am not a fan, like some members named **** on this forum. This was a BUSINESS transaction, it was not a donation- "ie: sure, I'll donate $3K towards your indie film". Personally I've spent thousands, if not tens of thousands trying my hand at micro manufacturing, and it is not easy- but I left no one out in the cold for years waiting. I believe I left no one waiting longer than it took Fedex to deliver a package. And it took a tremendous amount of time, energy and money to just try out an idea. I am sympathetic and critical- from direct experience.

So all you fan boys who root for Brandon- I think you are full of **** and I don't buy it. But I am practical, and to hire a lawyer for a small claims court filing- is it really worth it?

The issue is, in five years, the lighting world has been turned on it's head, and product cycle changes now happen at an unprecedented pace. In here, things were promised YEARS ago.

Having said that, I am sympathetic to Brandon's cause, and at this point I just figure the money is lost and if Brandon can deliver something- eventually- well, that's a good thing. If nothing happens, then we'll chalk another one up to experience with small pie in the sky Reduser Group Buys. If someone offers to sell you shares in a a bridge spanning the East River, well, I hope you don't buy into it.

From my perspective, Brandon's mistake is that he didn't deliver on what he originally set out to do. He should have done the strips, then turn around and offer another group buy with the controllers and another group buy for the mats AFTER he delivered on the previous group buy. But that's all in the past now.

So Sean, I am feeling $3K worth of your pain, but i honestly don't know if a class action suit will a) get your products done faster, b) recover any money spent.

If anything it'll slow down Brandon's efforts to deliver products- any products, to some of the group buy participants.

At this point I feel it's better if some people get stuff, even if I don't. Because if lawsuits fly, then nobody gets anything due to the cost of legal defense. Because of the dollar amount involved- small claims court stuff- at least on my end- it's a lost cause.

If you haven't been taken by a smooth talking producer, or a coarse talking producer/client yet, then this is good course is small business school. Get your money up front or have the product in front of you before we lay out cash.

I am not a fan of Brandon' business practice. One endless excuse after another. I mean, saying "I've been so slammed with work I haven't been home." is no excuse to not have paid-for-products made and delivered- especially when he has help fulfilling order. It is an EXCUSE nothing more. And we have experienced 5 years of non stop excuses. Having said that:

I do think a class action lawsuit will be counter productive for all parties involved. Unless of course Brandon is independently wealthy and is truly holding out on us. ie: there is actual financial recourse. I suspect Brandon has not personally profited from this. I don't know, I simply suspect. To do something on "principle"- well, look at the GOP lawmakers. You can act on "principle" but what lawmaker has your back these days??? What GOP lawmaker is "principled" and is willing to follow the LAW and support the US of A CONSTITUTION???.

THere are bigger fish to fry. Or in this case, burn.

 

[Phil Holland]

Mod here and strangely group buy participant.

What I can safely say this and 2 other GBs in years past have very much spurred the current landscape and cautions we deal with when handling GBs in general. This thread has actually been closed once or twice, I think there were also 2 other threads related to this. It has been requested once or twice to keep it open. I've left it open mainly due to "pending things".

If everything has been buttoned up, I'm happy to close it, but it's hard keeping track of exactly what has transpired here as this is now several years old.

If everything is "done here" I"ll happily close the thread.

 

[James Jetel]

I think there are a few people that would say they’re not done here. But they seem to be the ones who have a much more personal stake in it, which should be handled privately. My contention is that, with regards to productive community conversation, this post is long done. I’m happy to facilitate the further posts that I enumerated earlier - if desired.

Thanks for the reply, Phil.

 

[Nathaniel Haban]

If everything is "done here" I"ll happily close the thread.

Hello Phil, and thank you to the mods for chiming in. Obviously, I have to vote to keep this thread open.

Unfortunately, there is a great deal of unfinished business in this group buy, as myself and others are still waiting for orders to be fulfilled or refunded, even 5 years later. Making matters worse, Brandon Fowler a) does not respond to private communications, and b) locks us out of other social media accounts. For many of us, this is our only outlet to address concerns, and yes, I do only use REDuser as a last resort. I attempted for a month to get a update on my refund from Brandon with no reply before posting here.

This is incredibly troubling because, as you may have seen above, multiple group buy members have come forward claiming that Brandon has deleted or altered customer information for his benefit (deleting active customer accounts; marking orders as "fulfilled", when they have not been shipped). These are very serious allegations that need to be addressed. As of right now, our only recourse is to have those complaints addressed here - however negative they may be.

And yes, I do hate the air of negativity it brings to an otherwise productive, friendly forum. But I do firmly disagree with the sentiment from others that the culpability for that negativity lies solely with a few "troublemakers". Brandon Fowler initiated a group buy, and furthered that by promoting Kora LED on this thread. The sales that were a result are beholden to the same legal obligations as every other sales contract. Brandon Fowler - in a minority of instances - has not lived up to his legal obligations. And by refusing to address these issues in private, Brandon has forced us to do it publicly.

In the end, all I want is to be refunded for product that was never delivered, and for which orders were cancelled. That's it.