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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Dell UltraSharp 32″ HDR PremierColor Monitor

Blair S. Paulsen said:
Hate noisy monitors. You can put everything but the monitor/keyboard/mouse/control surface/etc in another room - but if the devices that have to be nearby are whiny, you're boned.
Would love to have reviewers measure noise levels and frequencies in their reports.
Even better, manufacturers should spec better fans!

Cheers - #19
Click to expand...

Quite is overrated. Baselight's Blackboard Two is very noisy, but I don't mind. I'll take this wonderful and noisy grading panel over a noise free so called "Advanced" panel. The only advanced thing about it being the advanced price:wink5:
Joking aside, Noctua makes many extremely quite and efficient replacement fans. I lost count how many fans I replaced so far...
 
Dell UltraSharp 32 HDR PremierColor Monitor: UP3221Q


By Dell



 
Updated Colorspace reproduction from Article above


ASUS ProArt PA32UCX-K


89% Rec.2020, 99.5% Adobe RGB,
99% DCI-P3 and 100% sRGB




Dell UltraSharp 32″ HDR PremierColor Monitor (UP3221Q)

99.8% of the DCI-P3 , 83% of the BT2020, 93% of the Adobe RGB
 
Blair S. Paulsen said:
Thanx Jeffery and Rand for the notes on LED dimming zones. It's particularly interesting since the XDR got dinged for haloing artifacts in dark surrounds - something easily seen in the Flanders A/B images above. Fortunately, most scenes would not exhibit as much bleed as the high contrast example of the juggler, but it's still an issue.
Would love to see a side by side in person, someday...

Cheers - #19
Click to expand...

Blooming is an issue on any FALD display unfortunately. But that is the only good way to achieve high sustained peak brightness at the moment. The Asus 4k FALD display they just released exhibits significantly worse blooming artifacts and backlight timing, as do many of the super high end reference displays because they are more concerned about static image performance. Many of them including the Sony and the Canon show very obvious delay in the backlight and LCD when jumping from very bright scenes to the next. The XDR isn't perfect at this either but it is significantly better than anything else I have looked at so far.

Something else many people don't seem to acknowledge is that 32" 4k is an absolutely terrible resolution to size ratio for a desktop display. Not a big deal if you only ever use it for content alone, but absolutely terrible for UI and any other normal use.
 
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jake blackstone said:
Everyone is pointing out to a higher brightness levels of 1600 nits monitors as a big advantage, but fact of the matter, as of TODAY, DolbyVision mastering is only done for either 1000 or 4000 nits. Yes, sometimes clients may also ask for another pass at 600 nits for the ever popular LG OLED monitors. Anyway, what that brightness differences mean, technically speaking, that if you you are mastering for DolbyVision on a 1600 nits monitor, highlights on a proper mastering 1000 nits monitor will then look wrong- they will be clipped. Inversely, watching a properly tone mapped 1000 nits DolbyVision material on a 1600 nits monitor will result in a dark highlights.
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Pro Display XDR has specific preset modes for different situations. The HDR Video (P3-ST.2048) preset is limited to 1000nits for grading work. The BT.1886 preset is limited to 100nits for rec709 stuff etc.

The higher peak brightness levels pay off when watching content graded beyond 1000nits. The difference between 1000 and 1600 is actually pretty significant when watching content graded beyond 1000. The reason HDR content is tagged with brightness metadata is so it can be properly mapped to higher/lower brightness displays. "Inversely, watching a properly tone mapped 1000 nits DolbyVision material on a 1600 nits monitor will result in a dark highlights." Isn't true at all. It will result in 1000nit peak highlights. Watching the terrible 200nit grade of Blade Runner 2049 will result in 200nit peak brightness. Some TVs will attempt to remap to the displays peak brightness but usually not in their Dolby Vision modes. One of the keys is if a display can actually do 1000nits full screen sustained as well. "1000 nits" doesn't mean shit if it isn't full screen sustained. Very few can.

4000nit graded content like Mad Max Fury Road looks signtifantly better on a 1600nit display than it does on a 1000nit display when played back properly. Especially a 1000nit display that can handle 1000nits full screen indefinitely.
 
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Pity about the price!

This Dell monitor and the Apple monitor are the kind of thing I'd ONLY buy if I had a client job lined up that'd pay if off instantly. Or if I was rich and just wanted to play around.

On paying HDR jobs, we've used the super-fancy $30K Canon HDR monitor as well as the cheap LG OLED HDTVs. To me the problem with the Dell and the Apple monitors are:
- If you need a bunch of cheap monitors for a large team, this doesn't offer enough of an advantage over the LGs for the (much) higher price.
- If you need a reference-grade monitor for the final grade / QC / whatever... this isn't it either.

I get the feeling these will all be out of date pretty soon and folks will regret the spendy purchase, unless it was just to have fun.

I'm interested in seeing what 2021's iPad is like and what the mini LED density and performance is like. A scaled-up 6K desktop version of that sounds nice. Either that or maybe we'll have 8K OLED TVs from LG with increasingly better peak brightness, or the other manufacturers will catch up...

Bruce Allen
www.bruceallen.tv
 
Blair S. Paulsen said:
....as much bleed as the high contrast example of the juggler, but it's still an issue.
Would love to see a side by side in person, someday...
Click to expand...

It’s it has to do with working in a rec2020 HDR space — and being able to push the dynamic range to get the most realistic image possible

I think before they would just use scopes and there was a safe area, but now monitors are getting closer in theatrical projection in representing the image the sensor can capture. From what I've been told large projectors, in theaters, are the only true representative of rec2020 in latitude.

I’ve heard a few times, “the DIT is more important, than the DoP in getting a good image on set”... which asks the question, if it's more important to light an image correctly or expose it correctly? ...probably both are equally important at this point. Film had great highlight roll off, but low ASA and digital had high ISO, but bad highlight roll off... now digital has both and it's really about getting the very most out of the image
 
Bruce Allen said:
Pity about the price!

This Dell monitor and the Apple monitor are the kind of thing I'd ONLY buy if I had a client job lined up that'd pay if off instantly. Or if I was rich and just wanted to play around.

On paying HDR jobs, we've used the super-fancy $30K Canon HDR monitor as well as the cheap LG OLED HDTVs. To me the problem with the Dell and the Apple monitors are:
- If you need a bunch of cheap monitors for a large team, this doesn't offer enough of an advantage over the LGs for the (much) higher price.
- If you need a reference-grade monitor for the final grade / QC / whatever... this isn't it either.

I get the feeling these will all be out of date pretty soon and folks will regret the spendy purchase, unless it was just to have fun.

I'm interested in seeing what 2021's iPad is like and what the mini LED density and performance is like. A scaled-up 6K desktop version of that sounds nice. Either that or maybe we'll have 8K OLED TVs from LG with increasingly better peak brightness, or the other manufacturers will catch up...

Bruce Allen
www.bruceallen.tv
Click to expand...

The main problem with LG OLED is not resolution or the peak brightness, but the W in WOLED tech. As a result, anything over a standard 100 nits is not really a valid image. Yes, it can be pretty, but not valid...
 
The Dell has arrived here at the Hut. Setting things up this week to test it all out.
 
andrewhake said:
"Inversely, watching a properly tone mapped 1000 nits DolbyVision material on a 1600 nits monitor will result in a dark highlights." Isn't true at all. It will result in 1000nit peak highlights.
Click to expand...

Not surprisingly, I would have to disagree. One of the reasons of tone mapping existence is to map the peak brightness of the image to the peak brightness of the display. You wouldn't want to watch Rec-709 at 70nits, right? Because that is what happens if you watch a DolbyVision mastered at 1000 nits on 1600 nits monitor. In this case the peak brightness of the image on a 1600 nits monitor will be permanently fixed at a dimmer 1000 nits. The even bigger issue would arise if the situation were reversed. Say, mastering was done at 1600 nits and played on 1000 nits monitor. That monitor is just not capable of reproducing 1600 nits and therefore anything over 1000 nits would get clipped. Luckily, RIGHT NOW this scenario is not even possible as DolbyVision at 1600 nits doesn't exist. RIGHT NOW DolbyVision tone mapping is only can be used with 100, 600, 1000 and 4000 nits, period. And the reason for that is to prevent the very situation we're discussing. I specifically mentioned "right now", as Dolby had mentioned, that they are planning in the future to include other non standard brightness levels in addition to those specific brightness levels. But the tone mapping for those non standard brightness levels, I imagine, may be will be handled by the TV itself?
 
Phil,


Thanks for that info. I will looking forward to your test results!!
 
jake blackstone said:
Not surprisingly, I would have to disagree. One of the reasons of tone mapping existence is to map the peak brightness of the image to the peak brightness of the display. You wouldn't want to watch Rec-709 at 70nits, right? Because that what will happen with watching a 1000 nits master on 1600 nits monitor. But in this case, it will just the monitor will be dimmer at 1000, than it is capable. The even the bigger issue would be if the mastering was done at 1600 nits and played on 1000 nits monitor. That monitor is just not capable of reproducing 1600 nits and therefore anything over 1000 nits will get clipped. The bottom line, there is a reason why RIGHT NOW DolbyVision tone mapping is only used with 100, 600, 1000 and 4000 nits, period. And the reason for that is to prevent the very situation we're discussing. I specifically mentioned "right now", as Dolby had mentioned, that they are planning in the future to include other non standard brightness levels in addition to those specific brightness levels.
Click to expand...

I always wondered why those specific preset nit targets in the Dolby Vision palette.
 
andrewhake said:
One of the keys is if a display can actually do 1000nits full screen sustained as well. "1000 nits" doesn't mean shit if it isn't full screen sustained. Very few can.
Click to expand...
Sony X300 can only do 1000 nits at no more than 10% of the screen. It can barely hit 200-300 nits on a full screen. Anyway, you sure as hell wouldn't want to drive that monitor for any significant periods of time, there is a reason why that monitor has an overdrive indicator. The screen will quickly burn in and there goes your $30k investment.
Said that, this very monitor for many years was THE MASTERING MONITOR for HDR delivery despite it not being "the shit" monitor according to you. It is now being supplanted by a new dual layer LCD technology-Sony X310, which addresses the burn-in and brightness issues. HDR is not about the overall image brightness and I can't imagine any colorist staring all day at 4000nits searing images without a significant detriment to their health. Majority of HDR images are not that much brighter than SDR images. The main difference between SDR and HDR can mostly be seen in an image specular highlights and surprisingly enough, in an apparent specular highlight sharpness of the HDR images in comparison to SDR. Baselight actually has a specific tool, that deals with this visual phenomena. Also, there is a much wider color gamut available when working in P3 or REC 2020 for HDR delivery. Using wide color gamut color spaces allows for saturated highlights, that are plain impossible in SDR (REC-709)images. But that has nothing to do with the peak brightness...
 
jake blackstone said:
The main problem with LG OLED is not resolution or the peak brightness, but the W in WOLED tech. As a result, anything over a standard 100 nits is not really a valid image. Yes, it can be pretty, but not valid...
Click to expand...

Oh I agree 100%. That's why we would check on the $30K Canon reference monitor afterwards.

The budget did not sustain getting $30K Canon monitors for entire graphics team so they had to use LGs, but again it's wasn't the last line of defense in the grading suite.

As I was saying, if this new Dell monitor (or the Apple monitor) were a lot cheaper, it may make sense as an upgrade from the LG... but it's in a weird price bracket of "a LOT more expensive than the LG" but "also still not good enough REALLY."

I'm sure there are people with the projects this makes sense for - I just find it an odd product category for Apple and Dell to both go for.

Bruce Allen
www.bruceallen.tv
 
What's the cheapest set up for a Mac laptop that's decent for grading? I'm only working off 2k sources (S16 and ARRI Alexa 4:3 ProRes) and don't mind grading at 1080p.

Is there some crazy way to calibrate a 16" rMBP or one of the 4k 21.5" LG displays? Most of my work is personal projects but I want to get in the ballpark. It doesn't need to be better than ballpark.
 
Matt W. said:
What's the cheapest set up for a Mac laptop that's decent for grading? I'm only working off 2k sources (S16 and ARRI Alexa 4:3 ProRes) and don't mind grading at 1080p.

Is there some crazy way to calibrate a 16" rMBP or one of the 4k 21.5" LG displays? Most of my work is personal projects but I want to get in the ballpark. It doesn't need to be better than ballpark.
Click to expand...

The problem is not the calibration per se, but the way you get the image on screen. If you want to make sure you get the image you can trust, you need to bypass the OS color management. If you can get the cheap BM UltraStudio Monitor 3G, then you can use it to feed a number of decent monitors, that can be calibrated to Rec-709.
 
jake blackstone said:
The problem is not the calibration per se, but the way you get the image on screen. If you want to make sure you get the image you can trust, you need to bypass the OS color management. If you can get the cheap BM UltraStudio Monitor 3G, then you can use it to feed a number of decent monitors, that can be calibrated to Rec-709.
Click to expand...

What would you recommend? And recommend to calibrate the monitor? Again, it can be pretty bad, just needs to be ballpark.
 
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