2K scaling...

[Axel Mertes]

4K RAW to 2K RGB obviously makes sense except that it doesn't save much on data requirements -- in theory, 4K RAW is four-times the size of 2K RAW, and 2K RGB is three-times the size of 2K RAW... so the difference in file size between 4K RAW and 2K RGB isn't that much.

David,

this is basically correct - but its also the reason why many poeple ask for the 2K RAW from the full sensor, as they might need more storage capacity in the field, but do not have the maximum resolution requirements after all.

If you can store 4K RAW its not a big hit to store instead a 2K RGB (for which no RED CODE codec exists at the moment if I am right). So the 2K RAW scaled from 4K RAW seems closer to become available IMHO.

And as you don't gain much space from 2K RGB, but loose the very important 4th quadrant info to resemble the 3+K original resolution contained in the 4K RAW, I'd then rather go for the 4K RAW, as this codec is in our hands. Further, as Graeme pointed out, different filters will need to be applied to 4K RAW before becoming a good 2K RGB, thus being irreversible in worsed case to resemble a 4K then, so no big saving at all - after all.

If another codecs comes along in future, then talk again

Regards,
Axel

 

[Graeme Nattress]

That's correct David.

Graeme

 

[Rocco Schult]

..But maybe the surprise will be that when RED DRIVE comes around the corner, it can already deliver 60 Hz recording full 4K, because it should be able to handle about 3-5 times better transfer rates than the CF cards. Given a much faster DSP this is well possible. ..

I doubt its the DSP - the drive too will max out at roughly 80MB. I'd guess its about 2x faster than the CF. Would be tight.

RE the Bayer pattern I was thinking of reading out just a reduced number of photosites or bayer quadrants off the sensor with an odd pattern, like a dithered picture. Aliasing (because of a non-cartesian pattern) and RGB transcoding might be avoided that way.
I wonder though, if the resolution is high enough to cover the irregularity that would come along with an odd pattern.

 

[Rocco Schult]

I see here the possibility for a new Red product.

Those who worry about added rendering time when downscaling might go for a processor box where you insert the CF and output to another CF or to a computer. This could be based on the current in-camera hardware and firmware.

Those who worry about storage on CF could have this unit connected to their camera and record the downscaled image. It would be bulky, but would also be able to run off its own battery and might have several CF slots.

It was asked once for a "REDcode DSP PCI card" or something like that. It was a poll.
What we are looking for is basically a rendering unit speeding up REDcode in particular and other codecs in general. This comes down to a PC with an accelerator card and a universal transcoding app with batch capability and XML support.
Having that in form of a rugged, portable system, aka a RED body, yep, nice.

 

[Axel Mertes]

I doubt its the DSP - the drive too will max out at roughly 80MB. I'd guess its about 2x faster than the CF. Would be tight.

RE the Bayer pattern I was thinking of reading out just a reduced number of photosites or bayer quadrants off the sensor with an odd pattern, like a dithered picture. Aliasing (because of a non-cartesian pattern) and RGB transcoding might be avoided that way.
I wonder though, if the resolution is high enough to cover the irregularity that would come along with an odd pattern.

T'schuldigung ...

...but the current CF cards max out at roughly 30-45 MB/s writing. The 24fps 4K is at roughly 27 MB/s to keep well within this bandwidth. The 60 Hz should be around 68 MB/s. This is well possible on 2.5" SAS drives (single ones). The latest 2.5" SATA drives can handle up to 60 MB/s writing on a single drive. The speed of the RED DRIVE is yet unknown to us, but should be well in the >80 MB/s range anyway, so being fast enough for 4K 60Hz RED CODE.

Until Jim or anyone else offical says its wrong, I stay with that hypothesis. Even if just that starts them thinking about it (which I would doubt - the had these thoughts long before, for sure).

Bottom line:
We'll see...

Cheers,
Axel