Misgivings about 2/3's Scarlet for VFX?

[J. P. Sendall]

Just to ask those out there what they feel about shooting with the Scarlet 2/3's for VFX. And by that I mean green screen, tracking, plates, comping and so on. I know using the S35 Scarlet is going to be way better but I'm interested in what people think are going to be the worst problems if you attempt any of the above VFX methods on the 2/3's. Would you attempt it at all for a possible final distribution for cinema or would you only use it for TV?

 

[Alex Mack]

It will be better than anything used to finish film today. Thats just a fact.
The 2K digital print is a standard, and 4K is only starting to be really considered in the workflow. So many 35mm films have been handled at 2K, not to mention grain removal.
So, yes - despite the 'tv' appearance of the name 2/3 - its resolution and compression that counts, and 3k red-code will be a godsend for VFX.

 

[J. P. Sendall]

It will be better than anything used to finish film today. Thats just a fact.
The 2K digital print is a standard, and 4K is only starting to be really considered in the workflow. So many 35mm films have been handled at 2K, not to mention grain removal.

But my understanding is even though some films (LOTR) can be delivered in 2K a ton of post work has been done to them to make them look great. What I wanted was some people to consider what kind of problems we might face in Scarlet 2/3's origination for film out/2k/4K delivery.

 

[J. P. Sendall]

So, basically nobody sees any problems?

 

[Bruce Allen]

I'd expect it to have similar noise characteristics to the original Red One.

Yes it is an MX sensor (less noisy)... but the sensor is smaller and individual pixels are smaller.

Red One is good for VFX if you shoot daylight balanced with decent lighting. Under tungsten, I'd be careful. Shooting high speed under tungsten: you'd better have a TON of light. And then consider putting a blue filter on front of the camera lens.

That's my 2c prediction on an unreleased camera.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

 

[J. P. Sendall]

So any FX night shots are going to be tricky to pull off. Interesting as I plan to do exactly that. I have some city night shots that will require tracking and comping 3D into them. Then I guess it's a matter of matching grain etc for the CG 3D objects. I don't plan high speed shots or overcranking (at least yet). Of course this is all conjecture because as yet we don't know the low light capabilities of the 2/3's or the full DR.

 

[David Mullen ASC]

Until the camera comes out, we can only make guesses but in general, I don't see a problem with doing 2K/HD efx shots on the 2/3" camera any more than on any pro 2/3" HD camera.

 

[J. P. Sendall]

Until the camera comes out, we can only make guesses but in general, I don't see a problem with doing 2K/HD efx shots on the 2/3" camera any more than on any pro 2/3" HD camera.

Thanks for that David. So then what are my gains in using a S35 Scarlet instead? Considering we are low budget is the gain worth it? Where am I going to see the most advantage for instance? Do people see the post becoming the stumbling point?

 

[David Mullen ASC]

Larger sensors tend to allow cleaner images, plus the lenses don't have to have as high an MTF to get a sharp picture, whereas on a smaller sensor, the lenses have to resolve more to compensate. On the other hand, smaller sensors tend to produce images with more depth of field, which may be a plus in doing greenscreen and 3D work.

The only stumbling block may be if the production itself is shooting 4K or 5K on an Epic and want the efx plates to be shot at the same resolution on the same lenses. That's just if they really plan on finishing everything at 4K, including efx.

But if the whole production is shooting 3K on a Scarlet 2/3", I don't see a problem with the efx work also being shot this way.

 

[Zhibo Lai]

I also plan on doing many VFXs shots on scarlet. With the MX sensor's increased DR and faster read/reset times, I suspect it'll be a lot easier to pull keys and track than a Red One, of course we won't know until it arrives. I've pulled several on the Red One Mysterium sesnor and it's already a breeze.

 

[M Most]

Larger sensors tend to allow cleaner images, plus the lenses don't have to have as high an MTF to get a sharp picture, whereas on a smaller sensor, the lenses have to resolve more to compensate.

That's certainly true. However, the presence of a number of 2/3" cameras in the market (F900, F950, F23, Viper, etc.) for a number of years now led to the development and current existence of glass that fits that criteria. DigiPrimes, Digital Primos, and a number of other lines were developed with those specific criteria in mind.