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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Arri Alexa and Mysterium-X...

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I don't think a 7D or a R1 is very well suited for weddings at all. There are far more reasons than I am interested to list in the case of the 7D, and it is way OT.

As many have said, a Scarlet fixed promises to be a fine wedding machine.
 
Jannard said:
The discussion isn't "what is"... it is "what will be".

Jim
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Wasn't that long ago that Arri wrote that they did not see a replacement to 35mm film "in the foreseeable future"

That statement was made before RED raised it head, but I do wonder if the perceived placement of Alexa as a 2k camera for TV (according to NAB goers) is precisely where Arri want to be right now....


Mike Brennan
 
Lee Saxon said:
Oh man, Graeme, I was with you for like two whole sentences that time.

I would love to see you make a post one day that I understand the whole way through...
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I was reading backward through the posts and thought "well, I can usually follow graeme pretty well. Then I saw this...

Graeme Nattress said:
....error-diffusion dither offloads a reduction of bit depth into the spatial domain thus showing that the three dimensions of the image are intrinsically linked together.

Graeme
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Now that's a mouthful... I'm definitely saving that for my next cocktail party...
 
Unfortunately, communication is at it's most efficient when we can use a common set of technical terms that we know the meaning of. When in person we can fathom, through body language or other non-verbal means if full understanding has been achieved. On a forum, all it takes is a question for further clarification. And I'm always happy to clarify. REDUser should be about education more than anything else.

Graeme
 
Michael Brennan said:
Wasn't that long ago that Arri wrote that they did not see a replacement to 35mm film "in the foreseeable future"

That statement was made before RED raised it head, but I do wonder if the perceived placement of Alexa as a 2k camera for TV (according to NAB goers) is precisely where Arri want to be right now....


Mike Brennan
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I know we customers were sitting in the background saying "we know this technology is available, why isn't anyone advancing it" One man listened. He was brave enough to take a gamble and he took a big big gamble. He even laid most of his cards on the table.

Alexa is a superb camera. But you have to understand a lot of us have our hearts and souls in cameras like Epic. We truly believe where this system is going and that it is indeed revolutionary. -Not just in resolution, in many, many facets. It is a visionary camera born by years of discussions with the community and whoever else there is in the background in the engineering department and the Red team. It was created with a totally new ethos and understanding of the traditional principals from the ground up.

The Red was a camera that came out from nowhere. Still it is a totally underestimated camera which various industry sources have promoted in every bad way they can through the networks of communication. So i can imagine there is a lot of paranoia about "perceptions" going around. There's also a thing called the truth that doesn't need perceptions.

Alexa will get a lot of support and Arri has cut a nice niche for itself with the camera. You are doing a great job promoting that niche.

For me personally, resolution is important in the digital age. Much more important though is modularity. Everyone has different needs.

I think we can all agree though is that Jim's business model with his customers is probably the most revolutionary thing to come out of all this.
 
Jason Sinclair said:
Much more important though is modularity. Everyone has different needs.
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I can't agree more. Many people underestimate this very very important feature.. In the digital age it's important to make a better camera than the others. But, IMO, it's much important to make that camera "continue to be good" in the long run. That's what RED is doing with its product.
 
Graeme:

I hope you didn't take my post as a criticism - I was just kidding.

It took me a couple runs through that sentence but I did understand it and it does precisely describe the phenomenon.

You are absolutely right - it is more helpful to have a precise language. In fact I was griping on another thread that it was time to give up on the concept of a "crop factor" since it was only relevant when the vast majority of people had recent experience with one format - the 24x36mm 35mm film (still) format. That hasn't been the case for about ten years - so better to just be precise and relate the focal length to the actual angle of view desired.
 
Nope, not at all. Glad it makes sense though. DR is such a nuanced concept once you get past the initial concept, and what we're discussing with bit depth is one of those nuances.

Graeme
 
Michael Hastings said:
Graeme:

That hasn't been the case for about ten years - so better to just be precise and relate the focal length to the actual angle of view desired.
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Once sensor format is known, the only lens number we need to know is angle of view.
This particularly helpfull for ultrawides where focal lenght is not a good guide to actual angle of view.

In the future we are more likely to use more than one sensor size in a project (for slo mo or to use a compact camera ie scarlet) a step in the right direction is to engrave the angle of view on lenses. Max size of sensor coverage engraved would be helpfull too....

Mike Brennan
 
If Peter Jackson says (quite strongly) that for him 4K+ resolution is important, and that the image Red produces is beautiful, that kind of moots everything else.

After all, he's on the forefront of digital effects, cinematography, production & post-production flow, etc, etc. Who else do you need as an advocate?
 
Steve Dent said:
If Peter Jackson says (quite strongly) that for him 4K+ resolution is important, and that the image Red produces is beautiful, that kind of moots everything else.

After all, he's on the forefront of digital effects, cinematography, production & post-production flow, etc, etc. Who else do you need as an advocate?
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Agreed.
 
Graeme Nattress said:
Unfortunately, communication is at it's most efficient when we can use a common set of technical terms that we know the meaning of. When in person we can fathom, through body language or other non-verbal means if full understanding has been achieved. On a forum, all it takes is a question for further clarification. And I'm always happy to clarify. REDUser should be about education more than anything else.

Graeme
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Do you also write for The Big Bang Theory? :)
 
I have found this thread and your posts in particular Graeme - extremely educational. I think the dialogue between Arri and Red informally here is great, and honestly - really professional - Red clearly respects Arri and vice versa- of course there is rivalry - but that is healthy for the industry. I know I had to read over 56 pages - but hey - this discussion and the talent pool that contributes to it - is nothing short of exceptionally valuable.

thanks

Mike

Graeme Nattress said:
Unfortunately, communication is at it's most efficient when we can use a common set of technical terms that we know the meaning of. When in person we can fathom, through body language or other non-verbal means if full understanding has been achieved. On a forum, all it takes is a question for further clarification. And I'm always happy to clarify. REDUser should be about education more than anything else.

Graeme
Click to expand...
 
Steve Dent said:
If Peter Jackson says (quite strongly) that for him 4K+ resolution is important, and that the image Red produces is beautiful, that kind of moots everything else.

After all, he's on the forefront of digital effects, cinematography, production & post-production flow, etc, etc. Who else do you need as an advocate?
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The point Arri could be making though is that Peter Jackson needs tools for Peter Jackson. Not everyone is Peter Jackson.

The chances though that even a film like Return of the King will ever be 4k is probably pretty small in at least the not too distant future. It's near the top of the list of films I would expect would be worth the effort--but that's a lot of effort. They could go back and rescan all the negatives. They could re-render all the CG passes. They could re composite all the shots. But they probably won't. What snuck by in 2k might need to be repainted.

Future proof is all pretty relative. I think Star Trek TOS in HD is a good indication of what it would take. And I think Star Trek is an extremely rare exception to the rule where it would be financially viable. If you want future proof 4k then you need to finish in 4k now. That's a tough sell for what will probably be Arri's largest market: Television. But will probably be an easy sell for Peter Jackson on The Hobbit.

Again there are legitimate reasons to shoot high resolution and supersample. It makes a lot of things easier, it looks nicer and all the other good arguments expressed in this thread. But Arri isn't off its rocker either. If people prefer the look and the workflow then they aren't really losing anything down the road IMO.
 
I couldn't resist :)
http://xkcd.com/732/
hdtv.png
 
Gavin Greenwalt said:
The point Arri could be making though is that Peter Jackson needs tools for Peter Jackson. Not everyone is Peter Jackson.

The chances though that even a film like Return of the King will ever be 4k is probably pretty small in at least the not too distant future. It's near the top of the list of films I would expect would be worth the effort--but that's a lot of effort. They could go back and rescan all the negatives. They could re-render all the CG passes. They could re composite all the shots. But they probably won't. What snuck by in 2k might need to be repainted.

Future proof is all pretty relative. I think Star Trek TOS in HD is a good indication of what it would take. And I think Star Trek is an extremely rare exception to the rule where it would be financially viable. If you want future proof 4k then you need to finish in 4k now. That's a tough sell for what will probably be Arri's largest market: Television. But will probably be an easy sell for Peter Jackson on The Hobbit.

Again there are legitimate reasons to shoot high resolution and supersample. It makes a lot of things easier, it looks nicer and all the other good arguments expressed in this thread. But Arri isn't off its rocker either. If people prefer the look and the workflow then they aren't really losing anything down the road IMO.
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WB is going through their library now and re-scanning film at 4K for re-release.

Jim
 
Hilarious, Deanan. At some point it won't even be "High Definition"-- that term only exists because there's a low def. What will we call digital once all the analog is gone?
 
Who needs cars with more than four cylinders? Planes with more than one engine? Why does the Dow need to be higher than 9,000? Why is there surround-sound when people only have two ears? And why on Earth is Red wasting time building 5K cameras when we have High Definition TV's in our homes as well as the multiplex?
 
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