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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Pan. and Sony announcements

E

Elio Roma

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Sony and Panasonic announced two big sensor size cameras to be released this year and for sure they are going to take a big slice of the cake in this market. What I am trying to understand it's why we need to look around the web to find bits of videos and photos of Epic and Scarlet, we come here on Reduser because we believe that red it's going to be in any case a better camera, we don't need assurance but we need some information and a bit of concrete feedback from what we write on this Blog.

http://philipbloom.co.uk/2010/04/11/new-panasonic-m43-camcorder-announced-ag-af100/

http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/sony-to-release-affordable-35mm-digital-cinema-camera-to-fend/
 
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I know you're gonna hate me but I've just bought a 5D MK2, Audio is a bit of a problem but a nice way of keeping away from this forum (not in a negative way) and shooting some interesting footage, summers coming and I wanna be outside making the most of the light. Like most of you I think the Scarlet will be a way off as it sounds so perfect and perfection takes time. Lets wait and see and in the meantime use our time more creatively.
 
Elio Roma said:
Sony and Panasonic announced two big sensor size cameras to be released this year and for sure they are going to take a big slice of the cake in this market. What I am trying to understand it's why we need to look around the web to find bits of videos and photos of Epic and Scarlet, we come here on Reduser because we believe that red it's going to be in any case a better camera, we don't need assurance but we need some information and a bit of concrete feedback from what we wright on this Blog.

http://philipbloom.co.uk/2010/04/11/new-panasonic-m43-camcorder-announced-ag-af100/

http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/sony-to-release-affordable-35mm-digital-cinema-camera-to-fend/
Click to expand...

As Bloom points out, the Panasonic is a 4/3 chip but the data output is AVCCAM at 24 Mbps, I believe. Pretty compressed. Yes, for an additional $4K you can get a KiPro and go out to ProRes but... And the camera is around $6K. Don't get me wrong, there's some good stuff there but still no RAW, etc, etc.

Game changing? Depends on what game you're in, I guess.

as far as feedback... the feedback is around, you just have to hunt a little more for it.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and it doesn't ship until late this year. :rolleyes:
 
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it's gonna be nice for the indie filmmaker market, avccam codec will require less hd space, and a "right out of the box working camera" is always appealing rather than needing to buy modules. not to mention you can mount any lens on this thing... it has it's place, it's no where near what Red is aiming for, but it still has its place.
 
silence

silence

A telling silence... :mellow:
 
Elio, don't know what you want to hear that hasn't already been said multiple times on multiple other threads.

EPIC is currently is pre-production, the TATTOO phase is due to start shortly. After maybe 2 months of heavy in-the-field-testing, The first 'proper' EPICS will leave RED. And as RED has stated before, about 2 months later they'll start producing the SCARLETS.

RED has nothing to gain from delaying this process on purpose, and filmmakers have everything to gain from a trouble-free SCARLET.

In the meantime I can only advise what I had been advised wisely when I waited for my RED One back when: get a DLSR and shoot many RAW stills images, and learn how to work with RAW material. Unlearn the jpeg workflow and get to appreciate the possibilities a RAW workflow gives.
 
You're right there is nothing much to be said, Red does not do this on purpose, it's obvious that for them is a mastodonic effort to do what they do. Just seems they they lost the good train, this RED way of marketing was a real 2.0 cheap advertise, but also scared the big ones that eventually decided to get on the boat.

Ciao
 
Pani and Sony are now coming into the game fast, aimed at the corporate indie market which world wise is far bigger than the movie market, in addition Pani an Sony have world wide distribution systems in place, red has none of these, Pani & Sony have many loyal customers from TV downwards. Scarlet has been promised for many release dates! as yet no camera, 2009/2010/2011!!! Pani and Sony will deliver but unless Scarlet hits the streets soon the others will absorb the scarlet market to a greater degree than expected and no way will scarlet sell in the numbers talk about on here. Don't get me wrong, l want a scarlet but now Pani and Sony are coming in to the mix, the games changing very fast.
 
Still I felt a bit left out to. All we got was Joseph's coverage (which was great and I am thankful for) and some peoples iPhone pictures. I do not really get it why Red doesn'T spend more time on its web presentation. It's not like they can't afford hiring someone for that. Instead you have to browse through 10 threads to keep up.
 
The Red witch project, mysterious information scattered around the web and bits of videos that appear suddenly at smalls shows around the world, the user takes more time researching, discussing and growing an emotional interest on the product. Great modern marketing.
 
If Scarlet were not in the offing I would seriously look at the Panasonic for sure. I really like the 4/3 format, it should become the S16 of digital cinema, a nice step up from 2/3". I predicted Panasonic would do this when the GH1 came out, and am not surprised that they are first out of the gate with a practical large sensor HD camcorder.

2/3" or not, Scarlet offers so much more for a bit more money if one goes interchangeable. That is considering a camera configured with similar features, EVF, small LCD, and I/O modules. I'm just not interested in bottom of the barrel HD anymore. I am specifically interested in a 16mm film replacement at the highest quality possible.
 
Those are some pretty interesting cameras. I'm waiting for the S35 and these seem to fall close to it in price. I don't think people interested in the fixed scarlet will be interested in those cameras but it looks like they present competition to 2/3 scarlet with mini-primes as well as the S35. They seem to aim right at the independent film guys. We'll see. I'm not at all surprised though.
 
Hugh Scully said:
Those are some pretty interesting cameras. I'm waiting for the S35 and these seem to fall close to it in price. I don't think people interested in the fixed scarlet will be interested in those cameras but it looks like they present competition to 2/3 scarlet with mini-primes as well as the S35. They seem to aim right at the independent film guys. We'll see. I'm not at all surprised though.
Click to expand...

I can't imagine why. 1080p in a shit codec for $6000 or 3K RAW for $4750. I know which I pick.
 
A practical S35 field package configured with similar features will run at least twice the cost of that Panasonic. Based on what we know so far I'm looking at a 2/3" Scarlet Cinema package running around $8-10k before lenses.
 
I think the one that is closer to the S35 with full 35mm is the Sony and it's price was said to be $10K - $20K as I recall. I think you could get up and running with an S35 for that.
 
Elio Roma said:
Sony and Panasonic announced two big sensor size cameras to be released this year and for sure they are going to take a big slice of the cake in this market. What I am trying to understand it's why we need to look around the web to find bits of videos and photos of Epic and Scarlet, we come here on Reduser because we believe that red it's going to be in any case a better camera, we don't need assurance but we need some information and a bit of concrete feedback from what we write on this Blog.

http://philipbloom.co.uk/2010/04/11/new-panasonic-m43-camcorder-announced-ag-af100/

http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/sony-to-release-affordable-35mm-digital-cinema-camera-to-fend/
Click to expand...


Elio scusami ma non capisco esattamente cio' che cerchi, o come lo cerchi, o come vorresti trovarlo.


RED isnot a company like any other, and has chose its own path of things, enter REDUSER, as stated above in our mother language, I'm a bit confused as of what is that you look for and or how do you s=wish it was to be found, but one thing that I do agree with you is that this forum is growing so BIG that it continues to be more difficult to search and find relevant information.

However, I do love RED's way of business, vs. that of other manufacturers, which have been cut by storm from a company which no one had seen coming, and at their very first product made HUGE waves, and it is doing more so with they two new ones, Epic and Scarlet.

They can claim and advertise, that they are going to fang off, this and or that, or do this or that, but I for one believe each product has its markets, but no one is going to fang off Epic nor Scarlet, I have been present on many event and any time RED comes up, its a mess of how incredible RED is or how RED has changed the world of cinema and Video Music world, and how RED will do even more, and the other side says that RED is just so much talk and no delivery, even so they are over seven thousand five hundreds R1's world wide.

If it is the information that you seek you must be a bit more patient and understand how this is found in both this forum and on their Store site.

Again I do agree that this info should be more refined in their each individual thread, were RED ONE, EPIC, and SCARLET, must have each "MORE" thread lucked up, some already exist, in RECON and other subsection of this forum, so that they don't get buried in the infinity of what this forum has becoming.
 
Lee Saxon said:
I can't imagine why. 1080p in a shit codec for $6000 or 3K RAW for $4750. I know which I pick.
Click to expand...

... and Pani with line skipping or huge downscaling and it probably will not use whole area of M4/3 sensor
 
I *just* had a conversation at a local screening last night about these two cameras from someone who was initially planning on getting the Scarlet and then saw these and started to wonder.

So I asked this person, did you look at the specs? First, I found NOTHING on sensor sensitivity, or if their 720p mode skipped lines, but I said what about frame rate? What about image size? I don't get it. These two new cameras did not impress me. Not for the estimated costs.

What about remote control with the redmote?
What about electronic touch focusing?
What about focus rack in camera?
Additional module support? SSD?

This list can really go on and on. I'm not a fanboy, I just want the most freedom for the money I can spent and all I'm seeing that these new cameras jumped on to is removable lens. Welcome to last week!

On a serious note, how does an ND filter reduce aliasing? I could see allowing you to open up the lens more and reduce the DoF but that's really not reducing moire shot-to-shot without it because it's making you change your shot basically. I tried to google search but I'm not seeing anything is definitive.
 
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