Censorship on RedUser??!!

[Jason Ing]

I normally don't posts topics like this (I know it's a bold title) but I am curious about something that recently happened on RedUser.

Another fellow reduser and I started an "off topic" that we found interesting and wanted to share it with other users.

However, both threads were deleted.

I can understand forum moderators wanting to keep the forum "clean" by keeping out flamers, trolls, etc. who start topics that are inflammatory, etc.

But this topic and the ongoing discussion was not negative other then the fact it was about a competitor's product (I hesitate even calling it a competitor because the product is clearly inferior and so it was an interesting fluke that a producer used this product).

I don't see the reason for the threads to be deleted.

I even see many existing threads about competitor's products on RedUser. And Jim himself has made a gentlemanly nod towards competitors about their digital cinema cameras. There's even an comparison thread started by him.

So I can't imagine that there's a policy to delete threads that might be perceived as competition, etc.

My curious question is why where those threads deleted? I'm sure whoever deleted them will read this post. Come forward and explain yourself or the policy that you're supposedly enforcing.

In general, it's my opinion that censorship undermines the credibility of the censor.

This is a "forum" and the spirit of it is an exchange of information and knowledge.

Am I wrong? Am I speaking out of place? Thoughts anyone?

Or will this one be deleted too?

I LOVE RedUser and its community. :grouphug:

I don't want to see anything that undermines it. :emote_hippie:

 

[J Davis]

@Jason @mods

Is there a way that instead of threads getting deleted they are moved to a dumping area of dvxuser to be sorted later? This might help alleviate some of the aggravation I see and hear in face to face conversation about negative reduser vibe.

I personally like reduser and see it as a great learning environment and consequently I would like to see public opinion on REDuser lifted somewhat.

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

I am a huge fan of free speech; it is a required foundation for anything having a shot at approaching fairness.

On the other hand... If I were Jannard... I wouldn't want my no-compromise camera, and the billions at stake behind it, to be even remotely associated with crap like (my) 7D.

Since DVXuser is owned and operated by the same company behind this community, why not:

instead of threads getting deleted [[move them]] to a dumping area of dvxuser to be sorted later?

Good idea Davis.

The sooner RED is accepted amongst the likes of Panavision, and Arri, the sooner YOU, the owners, will be able to make as much as your true potential deserves.

 

[J Davis]

Yesterday I was in conversation about a production when the topic of scarlet and red came up. The person I was speaking to was very negative about RED and after some gentle probing I discovered that the root of it was a bad experience on their first visit to reduser.

This exemplifies a situation where the forum is affecting red's products in a negative way.

 

[Austin Glass]

On the other hand... If I were Jannard... I wouldn't want my no-compromise camera, and the billions at stake behind it, to be even remotely associated with crap like (my) 7D.

Well said, Roberto! I couldn't agree more. Without me actually investigating, I'm assuming this was the thread about the last episode of House? I can understand the tolerance of "other cameras" discussion in the past, but I can also see why the policy has changed.

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

Yesterday I was in conversation about a production when the topic of scarlet and red came up. The person I was speaking to was very negative about RED and after some gentle probing I discovered that the root of it was a bad experience on their first visit to reduser.

This exemplifies a situation where the forum is affecting red's products in a negative way.

I agree. If you want to be in the lead, act like it! That is why I (lovingly) try to ask SJ to stop bashing Arri so much.

 

[Jason Ing]

I find that I respect Jim more because his open discussion.

I'd like to say the same about RedUser.

 

[sander kamp]

Well said, Roberto! I couldn't agree more. Without me actually investigating, I'm assuming this was the thread about the last episode of House? I can understand the tolerance of "other cameras" discussion in the past, but I can also see why the policy has changed.

I can understand Jim's point too and he has every right to do so.

The problem is of course where does it end? Is it only competitor threads that are removed or is it also applied to negative comments about RED? And how would you know?

 

[Jason Ing]

Well said, Roberto! I couldn't agree more. Without me actually investigating, I'm assuming this was the thread about the last episode of House? I can understand the tolerance of "other cameras" discussion in the past, but I can also see why the policy has changed.

Yes, it was about House.

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

The problem is of course where does it end? Is it only competitor threads that are removed or is it also applied to negative comments about RED? And how would you know?

I wouldn't worry really... people are vocal. There are tons of regulars who don't behave like blind fanboys, so you would know if it goes beyond this subject. People join this forum for the goods, not the t-shirts.

Jim expressed his thoughts too. This is certainly not some sort of cloaked conspiracy type stuff. I can't remember what he said exactly but he stated his piece.

I find that I respect Jim more because his open discussion.

I'd like to say the same about RedUser.

I couldn't agree more, but you guys are thinking this is more than just what it is... this is just not a 5D forum.

Where the thread called "FF35 photography in prime-time" or "House shoots FF35", and the conversation stayed focused on that VERY interesting aspect... I would bet Jim would have read it, perhaps even chimed in! We all know he likes big sensors.

 

[Jason Ing]

Yesterday I was in conversation about a production when the topic of scarlet and red came up. The person I was speaking to was very negative about RED and after some gentle probing I discovered that the root of it was a bad experience on their first visit to reduser.

This exemplifies a situation where the forum is affecting red's products in a negative way.

Very good example. The attitude of even a forum has ramifications.

If there is censorship, then the immediate thought is what are the censors afraid of?

Red has NOTHING to be afraid of. The quality of their products and programs speaks for themselves. I'd hate for something as trivial as a forum's policy or a single moderator to undermine that in any way.

 

[Jason Ing]

IJason, I couldn't agree more, but you guys are thinking this is more than just what it is... this is not a 5D forum.

I don't think it needs to be designated as a 5D forum to talk about it. This is the "off topic" area.

I didn't make the post to necessarily say kudos to Canon or put Red down. I'm a fan of both companies and owners of both.

What was interesting about the article is that a big tv program is using an "inferior" product. It was interesting to me that a major would go that route.

Maybe someone on the inside who was on this forum could have given us more insight into the selection process and rationale.

But I don't see how it hurts Red in any way. We all know that if Scarlet was around, it would have been a different result.

 

[Andrew Rieger]

Many of us have complained about the censorship rules (myself included) but frankly, I have come to understand that it is their forum, their rules. The only problems I see is that some of the moderators are inconsistent. Some let stuff pass through, others do not. Technically, threads like the error thread should be deleted but they are a nice change of pace so I am glad they are here. As a general rule of thumb, if the thread remains civil and does not turn into a shouting match, they will not be deleted. Topics to stay away from include religion, climate change, the war on terror, gun control, politics in general and comparisons between DSLR's and RED. Other than that, you should be fine.

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

Red has NOTHING to be afraid of. The quality of their products and programs speaks for themselves. I'd hate something as trivial as a forum's policy or a single moderator to undermine that in any way.

I agree. However, when you sell products that are so under-priced, or "over-spec'ed", you have bigger difficulties that you must also concern yourself with.

You have now a market of several tenths of thousands, many of whom don't know enough to discern the difference between over-sharpened 720p with moire and flawlessly clean 3k RAW.

Can you educate such a mass? No. Not in the timeframe at hand, so all you have left is to distance yourself.

Nobody is saying you can't talk about RED and 7/5D, this very company hosts hundreds upon thousands of threads where just that is discussed... DVXuser.com

Do you want RED to keep on delivering insane specs with low prices? Or do you want a general inability to differentiate crap from great to make their efforts a waste of time?

If censorship went beyond this, then I can at least tell you that I would speak up, and leave. I'd shoot film.

But instead I am proud to be sometimes called a "RED fanboy", I don't mind it, because of Jim's, Jarred's, and the RED team's participation in this forum...

and RedCode...

and modularity...

and just plain IQ awesomeness.

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

I don't think it needs to be designated as a 5D forum to talk about it. This is the "off topic" area.

I didn't make the post to necessarily say kudos to Canon or put Red down. I'm a fan of both companies and owners of both.

What was interesting about the article is that a big tv program is using an "inferior" product. It was interesting to me that a major would go that route.

Maybe someone on the inside who was on this forum could have given us more insight into the selection process and rationale.

But I don't see how it hurts Red in any way. We all know that if Scarlet was around, it would have been a different result.

But then you would just turn to DVXuser, where some of the biggest filmmakers ever are also said to lurk under fake names. I do realize that there is a lot of garbage posted there, and I suppose that is the reason for you want to read the discussion here, where you'd likely learn more, or have to sift though less garbage... But that is just it... you have to... in life you have to chew before you swallow... on a prime-time set you bet your ass you have to! It is up to you to learn... And how much can mods do? I don't even think they get paid!

 

[Jason Ing]

Many of us have complained about the censorship rules (myself included) but frankly, I have come to understand that it is their forum, their rules. The only problems I see is that some of the moderators are inconsistent. Some let stuff pass through, others do not. Technically, threads like the error thread should be deleted but they are a nice change of pace so I am glad they are here. As a general rule of thumb, if the thread remains civil and does not turn into a shouting match, they will not be deleted. Topics to stay away from include religion, climate change, the war on terror, gun control, politics in general and comparisons between DSLR's and RED. Other than that, you should be fine.

So I guess there's some inconsistencies then. I've seen comparison charts between DSLR's and Red. But then again, it was a clear point against dslr's. The House post would seem like it's a point for it.

So religion and dslr's are out.

How about being religious about dsmc? :001_tongue:

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

There is no inconsistency.

RED wants to distance themselves from DSLRs.

Their hope was to squash that and move on.


If trained like a beast, day in, day out, pushing through pain and suffering, striving to get better, and finally got my running mile down to 6:00min...

...I too would be offended if you compared me to someone playing Wii Sports.

 

[chrislancaster]

There is no inconsistency.

RED wants to distance themselves from DSLRs.

Their hope was to squash that and move on.


If trained like a beast, day in, day out, pushing through pain and suffering, striving to get better, and finally got my running mile down to 6:00min...

...I too would be offended if you compared me to someone playing Wii Sports.

lmao

that is funny

Red's house .. Red's rules

go to dvxuser ..they have a forum for that

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

Any time.

go to dvxuser ..they have a forum for that

And, it is the same company!!!

 

[chrislancaster]

maybe the guy who did code red app cann do an app for dvx user ..

i lub code red :001_tt1: