EPIC News...

[Steve Gibby]

This is going to require some pyrotechnics for testing.

Actually my first high frame rate field tests with Epic X will be high speed action sports (kitesurfing, mountain biking, water housing surfing shots, etc), POV with a wide angle in a bi-plane doing aerobatics, fast moving wildlife, fast moving machinery in industry, and many more. My imagination is running wild with possibilities...

Over the years I've always shot a lot of high frame rate footage of the above mentioned types of subject matter - now I'll finally have my dream camera for that

 

[Rick Burnett]

Luis:

To be fair, and if I am not mistaken, (and I could be) cameras like the Canons that rely heavily on the ASIC are harder to update because there is limited code space and a limit to the changes you can make since most of the software is hardcoded into the asic. Presumably this will be somewhat true of future RED cameras as well, unlike the current REDONE which is based on an FPGA which is by definition FIELD PROGRAMMABLE so which allows you to program an entirely new software set.

That is the downside of using ASIC, the upside is you get faster bootup, lower power consumption, etc. but you also lose a lot of customizability.

ASIC doesn't imply entirely hardware implemented software. An ASIC by definition is an Application Specific Integrated Circuit, that just means it was designed for a particular task. Most complex ASICs I have worked on contain all the I/O circuitry, RAM, FLASH, and processors (like ARM or PPC) built into the same chip. It's faster to have all the components on one die, but, most designers weigh the benefit of which code should be hard-coded into the silicon and which should be programmable. I am sure both Red and Canon utilize this to their advantage. You know the Epic is made up of a bunch of ASICs, but, they are constantly finding new power and features in it.

Canon has a history of releasing products and not adding features in the future. Features that others have had to hack into their products. I'm not saying they are wrong in this approach, because I went into buying their products knowing this. But, when a company like Red comes along and offers more for your money, they clearly are going to be game changers to the way other businesses operate.

But even beyond that, Red benefits from what they do as well since Jim himself is using the cameras! When was the last time anyone from Canon was on a board telling you "Wow, wait till you see this image I got on my #D camera" Different mindsets.

 

[Curran Giddens]

Jeff wants EPIC right now! Please send me one, I don't care if it's "finished".

...or could I at least just buy a BOMB EVF, I really really actually do need a new EVF.

Me too!!

What will it take to get me on the Tattoo program? I will even tattoo a RED logo on my forehead!

 

[Michael Hastings]

Rick:

as I said, I wasn't sure about that. thanks for the clarification - makes sense and makes me feel like Epic delivery is probably closer than I thought, and also bodes well for getting new "cameras" through firmware updates well into the future.

I do think though, that Canon also has to consider how many changes when you are talking about trying to support a couple hundred thousand users with many different software versions, so 1) they probably need to be a little closer to a "finished" camera when they ship and 2) are a little more hesitant to make firmware changes and simply move new features to the new model and let volume pricing compensate.

For example, when I sell my T1i in a few months and buy the t2i I will probably only take a $200 to $300 hit so about $25 a month to own the camera and the upgrade is a physical swap sell/buy rather than a firmware update - and I get some of the new features like higher res sensor, etc.

I have done this routinely over the years with mass produced electronics like camcorders and computers.

 

[Carlos Dueñas]

Its cool to open my mail and have this kind of news to dream of. I just wonder what crazy things you people are going to deliver a couple of years from now, said NAB 2012, just in time for filming the end of the world

 

[CJ Roy]

Over the years I've always shot a lot of high frame rate footage of the above mentioned types of subject matter - now I'll finally have my dream camera for that

I'd say 1 out of every 3 of my jobs involves hi-speed and it's always such a heartbreak to tell the director or agency folk that we have to go down to 2k for it.

This is definitely where Red takes the lead.

 

[Steve Gibby]

I'd say 1 out of every 3 of my jobs involves hi-speed and it's always such a heartbreak to tell the director or agency folk that we have to go down to 2k for it.

This is definitely where Red takes the lead.

I can totally identify with your first sentence...and I completely agree with your last sentence.

A lot of professionals like you and me have been scratching our heads and looking for new tools that enable the very demanding (and in demand) shots we want/need to get. As artists its way frustrating to be limited by the tool choices we have available. We're about to get a new, highly capable tool in Epic X. I'll be way happy to put it to work and see what it can do...

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

I can totally identify with your first sentence...and I completely agree with your last sentence.

A lot of professionals like you and me have been scratching our heads and looking for new tools that enable the very demanding (and in demand) shots we want/need to get. As artists its way frustrating to be limited by the tool choice we have available. We're about to get a new, highly capable tool in Epic X. I'll be way happy to put it to work and see what it can do...

Well said Steve. I for one don't shoot underwater, but admit I am extremely excited to see how the M-X, and its stunning low-light performance, fly subsurface.

 

[Elsie N]

There is a reason for the huge difference in cost between the epic and scarlet. Performance and cost are not directly related, in fact cost is exponential. same reason a 2T drive costs like 4 times as much as a 1TB drive.

Interesting comment, interesting timing. Just this morning in my email from Newegg,

72-HOUR SALE! Don't miss our featured HDDs-$94.99 Seagate 1.5TB, $134.99 2TB...

The 1 TB drive sale price was only $89. But as you said, performance and cost are not directly related.

 

[Luis Melgar]

I have done this routinely over the years with mass produced electronics like camcorders and computers.

Red benefits from what they do as well since Jim himself is using the cameras! When was the last time anyone from Canon was on a board telling you "Wow, wait till you see this image I got on my #D camera" Different mindsets.

Hi Michael and Rick,

This is exactly that I want to say with "we love RED's attitude", I say 5D, but I could have said Panasonic, JVC, Sony... All of my previous cameras.

As a consumer, I deeply respect RED's business politics. If they could do it, they do. I hope and wish that they will make a lot of money with it, and be in the cinema industry for a very very long time.

As a profesional, RED give me best choices and best pictures with less budget. I'm grateful for that.

What about RED matte box? Any news about it? May be in NAB?

 

[alex lemon]

Well said Steve. I for one don't shoot underwater, but admit I am extremely excited to see how the M-X, and its stunning low-light performance, fly subsurface.

Amen. :thumbsup:

 

[Ketch Rossi]

5K 2.37:1 is now 120 fps.

Jim

Talk about restless minds..

Jim, what we will have for Still capture speeds at full resolution, FPS?

 

[Rick Burnett]

I do think though, that Canon also has to consider how many changes when you are talking about trying to support a couple hundred thousand users with many different software versions, so 1) they probably need to be a little closer to a "finished" camera when they ship and 2) are a little more hesitant to make firmware changes and simply move new features to the new model and let volume pricing compensate.

For example, when I sell my T1i in a few months and buy the t2i I will probably only take a $200 to $300 hit so about $25 a month to own the camera and the upgrade is a physical swap sell/buy rather than a firmware update - and I get some of the new features like higher res sensor, etc.

I have done this routinely over the years with mass produced electronics like camcorders and computers.

I'll also add that I find that FPGAs can be a royal pain for anything high speed. They try to bridge the gap between a general purpose CPU and a fully dedicated hardware program. Most things I see FPGAs used for are prototyping, but they do get used in final products as well. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying they are bad, but their limitations on design size, timing, etc present a whole new level of pain for engineers.

I'd say that Red learned a lot with the Red One and I am sure they will be shipping a product on release that will be far superior to the Red One when it was released in terms of features, capability, bugs. But I do understand what you are saying.

As I said, it's a mentality difference. I'm sure Canon at the end of the day would prefer you bought a new camera with new features. This is very evident with all their products. They are designed to work as is, and what little fixes they do get are generally glaring bugs not feature additions. I don't feel this way with Red. I feel their goal is to improve technology and only make you pay for the parts that have improved while letting you retain the parts that are the same.

I too have always played the sell the old upgrade to the new mentality, but I definitely welcome that mentality going away. Canon is doing business as companies have done for a long time. At least with SLR technology, you can INVEST in a lens. But with camera bodies, in terms of investment, it's one of the worst (not including the investment in terms of work you can do with the camera, I just mean return on equipment). Is that important? For some yes. Especially if I am upgrading to the latest and greatest all the time.

To even take it a step further, what amazes me the most is that once I have my Scarlet Fixed, I only need to add the Scarlet S35 brain and Canon mount in the future and I can use all my accessories with both. Each brain has it's own strength which is awesome.

 

[Michael Lindsay]

5K 2.37:1 is 5120 x 2160... which means you can crop the ends and get Quad HD from the same file... 3840 x 2160.

Jim

It would be fantastic if the chopping of the sides (smaller sensor window) meant that you guys could get the Quad HD format up to 150fps... A frame rate many of us understand and have used ...

thanks and keep it coming

Michael L

 

[Jannard]

It would be fantastic if the chopping of the sides (smaller sensor window) meant that you guys could get the Quad HD format up to 150fps... A frame rate many of us understand and have used ...

thanks and keep it coming

Michael L

Not possible... frame rates are determined by vertical lines only.

Jim

 

[Michael Hastings]

I too have always played the sell the old upgrade to the new mentality, but I definitely welcome that mentality going away.

Me too, I turn 55 this month and I have probably owned that many prosumer and broadcast cameras. I was hoping that R1 was going to be my last camera but some of the ergonomic issues didn't quite get us there.

But Epic has answered every item on my (realistic) wishlist and the Epic-X package pretty much gives me everything I need - and will be suitable for virtually any need my clients are likely to need. While I may up to a 9K Epic at some point - it would be more because I can rather than a true need.

As for the underwater - 64GB CF cards and the low light capability of the M-X will mean we have a compact underwater system with phenomenal image quality.

 

[Rick Burnett]

As for the underwater - 64GB CF cards and the low light capability of the M-X will mean we have a compact underwater system with phenomenal image quality.

I cannot wait to see what kind of underwater stuff gets shot with the M-X. Yeah, I guess changing cards underwater would be tough!

 

[Tony Lorentzen]

Does this mean I can get 1000 fps for 320x240? ;-)

 

[Rick Burnett]

Not possible... frame rates are determined by vertical lines only.

Jim

Wait, I am confused. Shouldn't this be by horizontal lines only? If it were controlled by vertical lines then the comment about chopping off the sides would allow a higher frame rate.

I would think that when a row is being read, it reads out the whole thing in parallel for speed purposes. Is this not the case? Is it shifted out?

 

[Lee Saxon]

I'm really curious about stills mode framerates. I've never had any problem with 8fps on my DSLR, in fact 99.999% of the time (for me, I can't speak for full-time sports guys) 5fps would be plenty. But a little bit higher couldn't hurt!