Alexa

[J. Eric Camp]

Just sharing info not looking to open up the can of worms:

Alexa will be able to record prores to on board sony sxs cards, for direct input into fcp.

 

[Julio Quintana]

That is a very nice feature. I have been in more than a few situations where I would have killed to have my RED do that. Even with a Red Rocket, transcoding 8 hours of Redcode still takes 8 hours.

 

[Häakon]

Wow, ProRes onboard. Gotta say, that's a huge plus in the Alexa camp.

 

[Grady Wilson]

there is a thread up in Recon on the Arri news, better to discuss it up there or does it need to stay off topic?

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=42094&page=62

 

[Craig W. Bickerstaff]

I'm pretty sure this counts as off topic.

That said this sounds really cool to me, What would interest me is if it supports high resolution anamorphic shooting when delivering straight to prores4444 or weather you would have to put it through their 1920 x 1440 anamorphic process.

 

[Tom Lowe]

It's RAW or nothing for me.

 

[Shawn Nelson]

It's RAW or nothing for me.

Um, Red "RAW" is compressed to roughly the same size as prores, so couldnt you do "RAW" to ProRes? I dont know if Alexa is, but I see no reason why you couldnt. Remember RAW != Uncompressed

 

[Tom Lowe]

REDRAW seems to work in a very similar manner to still RAW formats like CR2, as far as I can tell. Not even still camera RAW is completely RAW.

In any case, for me, all my workflows will be 100% RAW (including REDRAW:001_tongue from A to Z from now on. Frankly, I have not shot anything that wasn't RAW since early 2008, and don't intend to go back.

BTW, the most interesting tidbits about this announcement, from my point of view are:

1. Arri offering Nikon and Canon mounts for Alexa... hehe. Of course, many predicted the rise of still glass for cinema years ago and were mocked by the experts at c.com.

2. A new 12mm Master Prime 1.3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Stephen Williams]

1. Arri offering Nikon and Canon mounts for Alexa... hehe. Of course, many of us here predicted the rise of still glass for cinema years ago and were mocked by the experts at c.com.

Tom,

They were always used for VFX work in Hollywood movies. Most down-shooters had Nikon lenses.

Stephen

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

Arri desperately wants to take a peace of RED's cake especially in TV/Broadcast market where actually

RED is not its main competitor because there is the place where are ruling Sony F23, F35, XDCAM EX..., Genesis, etc,...

Onboard ARRI Alexa ProRes 4444 vs R1, Epic, Scarlet REDCODE !!!

SxS™ MEMORY CARD

"High-speed data transfer of large video files.

SxSTM memory cards are the first native PCI ExpressTM solid-state storage media1.
PCI ExpressTM has a maximum data transfer speed of 2.5 gigabits per second,
twice as fast as PC CardTM-based storage media. In addition, SanDisk and Sony have
optimized the technology protocol for controlling communication between hardware and SxSTM
memory cards to enable high-speed transfer of large files, such as high-definition video,
to PCs for non-linear video-editing. The target transfer speed of SxSTM memory cards is 800 megabits per second2.

Compact Size.

The SxSTM memory card specification uses ExpressCardTM/34 modules (width: 34mm, height: 5mm, length: 75mm),
half the size of PC CardsTM. This enables the design of professional camcorders that are smaller and lighter,
while still offering high storage capacities."

LINK>>>

 

[Tom Lowe]

Tom,

They were always used for VFX work in Hollywood movies. Most down-shooters had Nikon lenses.

Stephen

Hi Stephen :beer:

Well, many top experts at c.com told me that Full Frame 35mm aka Vista Vision would never become a popular cinema 24p acquisition format because "there are no lenses." When I pointed to a whole slew of nice still glass at FF35, I was told that "no serious cinematographer" would ever be caught dead shooting on still glass. I guess Arri disagrees.

BTW, you going to NAB?

 

[Tom Lowe]

BTW, lol at the quote from the Gizmodo article about Alexa:

Despite shooting a max of 2K as opposed to 4K, ARRI is confident that their video quality will look just as good as anything shot on RED cameras.

Oh yeah? How about we project Alexa vs Epic X at 4K RGB?

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

Tom,

They were always used for VFX work in Hollywood movies. Most down-shooters had Nikon lenses.

Stephen

Now even Stephen "respects" use of still photo glass in Holly... :devil:

Also I started here to talk about Heraclitus more than 3 years ago:

Panta rhei, "everything flows"

Πάντα ῥεῖ (panta rhei) "everything flows" either was not spoken by Heraclitus or did not survive as a quotation of his.

This famous aphorism used to characterize Heraclitus' thought comes from Simplicius.[29]
The word rhei, adopted by rhe-o-logy, is simply the Greek word for "to stream."[30]

The philosophy of Heraclitus is summed up in his cryptic utterance:[31]

ποταμοῖσι τοῖσιν αὐτοῖσιν ἐμϐαίνουσιν, ἕτερα καὶ ἕτερα ὕδατα ἐπιρρεῖ.
Potamoisi toisin autoisin embainousin, hetera kai hetera hudata epirrei
"On those stepping into rivers the same, other and other waters flow."

The quote from Heraclitus is interpreted by Plato as:[32]

πάντα χωρεῖ καὶ οὐδὲν μένει

Panta chōrei kai ouden menei

"Everything changes and nothing remains still"

Instead of "flow" Plato uses chōrei, to change chōros.

The assertions of flow are coupled in many fragments with the enigmatic river image:[33]
"Ποταμοῖς τοῖς αὐτοῖς ἐμβαίνομέν τε καὶ οὐκ ἐμβαίνομεν, εἶμέν τε καὶ οὐκ εἶμεν."
"We both step and do not step in the same rivers. We are and are not."

LINK>>>

Also don't forget that after that Jim and ARRI both quote about "everything changes".

 

[David Mullen ASC]

Hi Stephen :beer:

Well, many top experts at c.com told me that Full Frame 35mm aka Vista Vision would never become a popular cinema 24p acquisition format because "there are no lenses." When I pointed to a whole slew of nice still glass at FF35, I was told that "no serious cinematographer" would ever be caught dead shooting on still glass. I guess Arri disagrees.

BTW, you going to NAB?

The issues of using still camera lenses for narrative work involving actors, following them in close-ups as they move around, etc. hasn't gone away -- it's still a problem. VistaVision plate photography generally doesn't involve that type of focus-pulling situation except occasionally.

It's not insurmountable, just unappealing, the prospect of having to use still camera lenses for narrative features. I notice that most people who don't seem to think it's a problem aren't regularly shooting actors day after day, month after month.

But still lenses have their uses, hence why it makes sense for ARRI, Red, etc. to allow mounts for them. Plus any telephoto lens in filmmaking will tend to be a still lens or a converted still lens.

But in terms of the FF35 issue, I think cine-style FF35 lenses will follow soon after the cameras are available.

I'm just restating something I've said many times before, that cine-style lenses serve a specific function for a specific market and still lenses are not a simple substitute with no practical difference. Most follow-focusing of actors involves tape measurements and the ability to pull focus slowly (due to a long barrel rotation) through differences of inches. Still lenses are not designed for this style of focus-pulling. A mere wiggle of the barrel is enough to shift the focus a couple of inches on some still lenses.

Now that I've got a Canon 550D and have been playing around with Canon still lenses on it, I'm more convinced than ever that these lenses are a total pain-in-the-a--- for traditional focus-pulling situations. So far, I've limited my shots to locked-off focus to avoid the problems of trying to pull smoothly and accurately on these lenses. I know there are solutions, I'm just saying that there is a reason why cine-style lenses are the way they are.

Focus-pulling for narrative ideally is anticipatory, not reactive, and often it's based on knowing what the actor is going to do and using distance marks & measurements as a guide. Not to mention, the focus puller is not operating -- sometimes they don't even see what the operator is seeing, they just see the subject and its distance to camera. So a long barrel rotation with a lot of fine distance marks is critical.

Tom, it's not a question of ego or fashion with me -- I don't have a "hang-up" about being seen using any sort of equipment if it works. I've been known to grab paper towels and use them to soften a light, or use the lid of an ice cooler for a bounce card, or someone's T-shirt. If it works, I don't care if makes me look less professional. For me, it's about understanding how tools work and using the correct ones for the job. Lens choice is critical in filmmaking, not just from a technical level, but a practical, logistical level. I don't get hung up on which lens is actually the sharpest, etc. but I do care about what allows me to make my day and get the scene done with the fewest mistakes. I don't want to have to tell an actor that their favorite take is no good because of a focus mistake caused by me choosing the wrong lens for the job.

 

[Ivan Cortazar]

I'm just restating something I've said many times before, that cine-style lenses serve a specific function for a specific market and still lenses are not a simple substitute with no practical difference. Most follow-focusing of actors involves tape measurements and the ability to pull focus slowly (due to a long barrel rotation) through differences of inches. Still lenses are not designed for this style of focus-pulling. A mere wiggle of the barrel is enough to shift the focus a couple of inches on some still lenses.

Hi David,

Have you tried a Birger Mount with the Impero? With the new firmware on the Impero, you can map 1 full turn of the lens into 2 full turn on the follow focus. I have done very minute pull focus with good canon L prime lenses with very little breathing. You can also create your custom rings with the distant marks on it, for pulling focus without monitor on the fly.

I'm not saying that these lenses are better than cine style lenses, (though for very light set ups, are killers) but in my opinion with the combination of Canon L - Birger - Impero it is definitively a very good option for narrative cinema. I'm very curious to hear what you think.

 

[David Mullen ASC]

It sounds like a good solution, though the ultimate -- and simpler, even though more costly -- solution will be for someone to build cine lenses for an FF35 digital cinema camera, when one exists.

If the lenses are created, I'm less concerned about the approx. 1.5-stop difference in depth of field, I've shot four features in 35mm anamorphic and am willing to deal with that issue if it gets me more quality. I just don't want the impractical combination of less depth of field + lenses not designed for narrative focus-pulling techniques, making things harder on the crew in two directions simultaneously. If the tools are created to make focusing easier and more practical, then the focus-puller at least has a fighting chance.

But sure, there will be after-market tools to make FF35 still lenses more amenable to focus-pulling.

 

[MichaelHalsell]

David, have you had a chance do any production shots with the Zeiss Compact Primes?

 

[David Mullen ASC]

I haven't heard of anyone using them yet. Stuff I shoot tends to use the usual suspects -- Zeiss Super Speeds, Ultra Primes, Master Primes... Cooke S4's... Panavision Primos, etc. (Actually I haven't used Cooke S4's yet... half the stuff I shoot comes from Panavision.)

 

[Tom Lowe]

David, of course I agree with what you are saying. We've all been having this conversation for a long time, ever since epic FF35 was announced. Actually, before it was ever announced, when just a handful of crazies were in the new "Epic" forum suggesting that FF35 or "Vista Vision" would be a great format for digital, given its natural advantages. There was even IMAX talk back then. Once the 5D2 dropped, I think it finally became apparent to most people that a large format like that would go over gangbusters with most shooters.

Even back then, we knew that FF35 still glass would have to be rehoused for serious cinema work, and just like a clock, those things have been happening, whether it's the rehoused Nikon G 14-24 Ruby, or Zeiss with their apparent commitment and understanding of the importance of the forthcoming FF35 cine market. Even back then, most of us, including you, agreed -- if FF35 catches on as a sensor format, the market will drive lens manufacturers to introduce new FF35 cine glass. :cheers2:

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

Nice to hear MPs keep growing. So many RAVE about the 14mm being the best MP or one of the better of the set. I wonder if the 12mm will be a similar story?? I thought it wasn't physically possible to get that wide at T1.3, or is that a misconception between "not possible" vs. "not possible without a lot/expensive of aespheric elements"?

David, in an open field and when you wanted the short look, what is the closest distance you'd "allow" an actor to a 12mm?