Jason Sinclair
Well-known member
The woman i have my sights on is no bitch she she is every bit value for money if her older sibling is anything to go by.
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Arri Alexa and Mysterium-X...
- Thread starter Jannard
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The woman i have my sights on is no bitch she she is every bit value for money if her older sibling is anything to go by.
Jason Sinclair
Well-known member
The woman i have my sights on is no bitch and she is every bit value for money if her older sibling is anything to go by.
I suppose its what you do with her that counts
Graeme Nattress
RED Problem Solver
Well, Epic doesn't have to downsample, but say you went down from 5k to 1080p on Epic. You'd gain at least 1/2 stop more DR, maybe more, and you'd get more accurate chroma edges and so on. Add in smaller, lighter, faster etc.
Graeme
Graeme Nattress
RED Problem Solver
Most of Avatar was heavy CGI though, which is effectively rendered at perhaps 11 times or so the output resolution and downsampled as part of the anti-aliasing process producing a much "richer detail" 1080p than any camera could ever achieve (perhaps).
2k might have been good enough when you're comparing it to a nasty old film print, but when you're getting into pristine digital projection on large screens, 4k looks better.
Graeme
Luis Melgar
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I'm agree and sure that 4k looks better, and not only in large screen. It's the right way, even more for adquisition...
But I don't believe that Alexa will going to be a "debacle" only for beeing 2K, I think it is excessive because there's a lot of pro people out there still working on HD... For me, RED have better concept and technology, and better cameras. I personally prefer having 4 Scarlett S-35 on set for half of the cost of an Alexa, but I think that it's going to make a bunch of movies and tv-shows.
And I take this opportunity to congratulations and thanks to you, Mr. Nattress, and the entire Red Team for your great work.
Luis Melgar
But I don't believe that Alexa will going to be a "debacle" only for beeing 2K, I think it is excessive because there's a lot of pro people out there still working on HD... For me, RED have better concept and technology, and better cameras. I personally prefer having 4 Scarlett S-35 on set for half of the cost of an Alexa, but I think that it's going to make a bunch of movies and tv-shows.
And I take this opportunity to congratulations and thanks to you, Mr. Nattress, and the entire Red Team for your great work.
Luis Melgar
Graeme Nattress
RED Problem Solver
Thanks Luis. We're constantly working on making images better, and I guess that's why we're not promoters of 2k. Also, starting with Frankie and with RED One and now M-X, we've become very used to and accustomed to seeing and dealing with 4k plus images. We find it very hard to go back to "only 2k". Our perceptions and quality thresholds have shifted over the past few years.
Graeme
Graeme
Steve Gibby
Red Savant
Red One was designed with modularity, multi-resolution capability, and multi-lens type options to enable broad utility of the camera across the various style and technique divisions of the motion media industry. The many improvements of the camera, including now the M-X sensor, have progressively unlocked more of Red One’s potential.
Red One has been, is now, and will continued to be used by individuals and crews shooting cine style, hybrid style, and EFP style. Each of those styles of using Red One is entirely valid for the needs of that style - and none of them, union or non-union, has a corner on the knowledge of how to use a Red One camera. Each style tends to naturally polarize to what accessories, lenses, and techniques best fit their style and field workflow.
Let’s forget about official crew classifications and Job Descriptions for a minute. Knowledge about anything is simply that – knowledge in that area or discipline. There are certain standard ways to setup and use a camera within each style of production. Each style naturally tends to figure out what works for them and stick with it. In the case of unions, with segmented responsibilities and well-defined workflows, standardization is naturally emphasized. But with the vast majority of worldwide productions each year being non-union, and modular/flexible/affordable cameras like Red One available, crew compositions and camera usage techniques vary widely – and that has certainly been the case with Red One.
Huge numbers of non-union, hybrid style, and non-hardlined EFP style crews regularly use Red One, and now Red One with the M-X sensor. This percentage will likely increase with the even more modular, flexibly, and utilitarian design of Epic and Scarlet. Large city productions get more publicity - but the huge block of non-union, hybrid and non-hardlined EFP style crews buy many more cameras, lenses, and accessories - and numerically use them on many more productions each year. To summarize this, Red’s largest market by far for Red One, Epic, and Scarlet is in the non-union, hybrid, and non-hardlined EFP communities.
The fact is that in these numerous non-union, hybrid, and non-hardlined EFP productions using Red One an AC position isn’t staffed. Crews are streamlined down for cost, mobility, and functionality, thus those AC skills sets are brought to the table collectively by the director, DP, and or cinematographer – or by a single person in the case of owner operators working alone. Does that mean they somehow have inferior knowledge or skill sets for how to maintain, setup, accessorize, and use RED One? No! In fact, someone who has to regularly wear all the hats of producer, director, DP, cinematographer, and assistant while working in a small crew or by themselves develops what could be called “the overall flick” with Red One. That’s certainly not to minimize the valuable input of large crew ACs – its just to make clear that ACs don’t have a corner on the Red One usage knowledge. Over the years all of us have grown with Red One, and given lots of feedback on field operation and issues of the camera to Red. That has benefited us all.
So who has Red been listening to for industry input and feedback in the development of Red One, and now Epic and Scarlet? Wisely, they’ve listened to the overall industry – cine style, hybrid style, and EFP style. Within these styles they’ve also listened to union large crews, non-union medium size crews, and boutique owner/operators. That’s why Red One was made so modular and flexible, which will be taken to the next level of those attributes by Epic and Scarlet. So whose feedback should Red listen to? The answer is everyone’s across style lines –and in my opinion they have done just that from the beginning and will continue to do so.
IMO in terms of flexibility, utility, modularity, performance, and affordability Red One M-X, Epic and Scarlet will more than compete with Alexa. The M-X sensor is a significant leap forward! I have no doubt that M-X equipped Red One, Epic, and Scarlet cameras will not only compete extremely well with Alexa, but they’ll be much more affordable, and thus they’ll be in much more widespread and diverse usage.
In closing let me say this. The Red community is very diverse in style, crew size, and usage techniques. Respect is a 2-way street. I have immense respect for all styles and techniques for using Red One, Red One M-X, and Epic and Scarlet to come. There is no “right” way to setup, accessorize, and use these cameras – only a “right” way for each production or portion thereof, depending on the style of production, techniques desired, and resultant crew composition needed.
Lets unite as a community! Every voice here is important. I wish peace and good shooting to every one of you, no matter what style, technique, or crew composition you work in.
Red One has been, is now, and will continued to be used by individuals and crews shooting cine style, hybrid style, and EFP style. Each of those styles of using Red One is entirely valid for the needs of that style - and none of them, union or non-union, has a corner on the knowledge of how to use a Red One camera. Each style tends to naturally polarize to what accessories, lenses, and techniques best fit their style and field workflow.
Let’s forget about official crew classifications and Job Descriptions for a minute. Knowledge about anything is simply that – knowledge in that area or discipline. There are certain standard ways to setup and use a camera within each style of production. Each style naturally tends to figure out what works for them and stick with it. In the case of unions, with segmented responsibilities and well-defined workflows, standardization is naturally emphasized. But with the vast majority of worldwide productions each year being non-union, and modular/flexible/affordable cameras like Red One available, crew compositions and camera usage techniques vary widely – and that has certainly been the case with Red One.
Huge numbers of non-union, hybrid style, and non-hardlined EFP style crews regularly use Red One, and now Red One with the M-X sensor. This percentage will likely increase with the even more modular, flexibly, and utilitarian design of Epic and Scarlet. Large city productions get more publicity - but the huge block of non-union, hybrid and non-hardlined EFP style crews buy many more cameras, lenses, and accessories - and numerically use them on many more productions each year. To summarize this, Red’s largest market by far for Red One, Epic, and Scarlet is in the non-union, hybrid, and non-hardlined EFP communities.
The fact is that in these numerous non-union, hybrid, and non-hardlined EFP productions using Red One an AC position isn’t staffed. Crews are streamlined down for cost, mobility, and functionality, thus those AC skills sets are brought to the table collectively by the director, DP, and or cinematographer – or by a single person in the case of owner operators working alone. Does that mean they somehow have inferior knowledge or skill sets for how to maintain, setup, accessorize, and use RED One? No! In fact, someone who has to regularly wear all the hats of producer, director, DP, cinematographer, and assistant while working in a small crew or by themselves develops what could be called “the overall flick” with Red One. That’s certainly not to minimize the valuable input of large crew ACs – its just to make clear that ACs don’t have a corner on the Red One usage knowledge. Over the years all of us have grown with Red One, and given lots of feedback on field operation and issues of the camera to Red. That has benefited us all.
So who has Red been listening to for industry input and feedback in the development of Red One, and now Epic and Scarlet? Wisely, they’ve listened to the overall industry – cine style, hybrid style, and EFP style. Within these styles they’ve also listened to union large crews, non-union medium size crews, and boutique owner/operators. That’s why Red One was made so modular and flexible, which will be taken to the next level of those attributes by Epic and Scarlet. So whose feedback should Red listen to? The answer is everyone’s across style lines –and in my opinion they have done just that from the beginning and will continue to do so.
IMO in terms of flexibility, utility, modularity, performance, and affordability Red One M-X, Epic and Scarlet will more than compete with Alexa. The M-X sensor is a significant leap forward! I have no doubt that M-X equipped Red One, Epic, and Scarlet cameras will not only compete extremely well with Alexa, but they’ll be much more affordable, and thus they’ll be in much more widespread and diverse usage.
In closing let me say this. The Red community is very diverse in style, crew size, and usage techniques. Respect is a 2-way street. I have immense respect for all styles and techniques for using Red One, Red One M-X, and Epic and Scarlet to come. There is no “right” way to setup, accessorize, and use these cameras – only a “right” way for each production or portion thereof, depending on the style of production, techniques desired, and resultant crew composition needed.
Lets unite as a community! Every voice here is important. I wish peace and good shooting to every one of you, no matter what style, technique, or crew composition you work in.
Sanjin Jukic
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REDFLEX
REDFLEX
Alexa is pretty heavyweight and expensive camera with much less resolution, DR, latitude, features than R1-M-X
that I call sometimes REDFLEX because it's a really modular camera and can accept so much lenses to work.
RED1 with Angenieux 45-90mm f/2.8 Leica R-Leicaflex zoom.
REDFLEX
Alexa is pretty heavyweight and expensive camera with much less resolution, DR, latitude, features than R1-M-X
that I call sometimes REDFLEX because it's a really modular camera and can accept so much lenses to work.
RED1 with Angenieux 45-90mm f/2.8 Leica R-Leicaflex zoom.
Joe G.
Well-known member
"...it doesn't seem like a fair fight."
Let's see the actual footage. Red is compressed, no choice. They're getting better at it, but compared to uncompressed, I need to have a good look and not rely on "technical" assumptions.
Let's see the actual footage. Red is compressed, no choice. They're getting better at it, but compared to uncompressed, I need to have a good look and not rely on "technical" assumptions.
- Thread starter
- #490
Jannard
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EPIC has a mathematically lossless REDCODE option (2.5:1). It records to SSD and not CF.
Jim
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Hrvoje Simic
Banned
That's the answer I was looking for.
Jeremy Torrie
Well-known member
I think a lot of people just crapped themselves!
Mark L. Pederson
REDuser Sponsor
Mathematically lossless 5K on board recording.
Karl Gustav H.
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Oh.God.Yeah.
Not that it's necessary in 90% of cases I suspect, but it does disarm one of the long-standing jibes about the cam.
Not that it's necessary in 90% of cases I suspect, but it does disarm one of the long-standing jibes about the cam.
Martin Stevens
REDuser Sponsor
The Epic camera system will be so freakin' sophisticated
that people will see rolls of "Vision 2" film stock hitchhiking
out of town. Heck, we may even see a few rolls of film stock
try to commit suicide.
Well.....perhaps I exaggerate a little.
:gun: :gun: :gun:
that people will see rolls of "Vision 2" film stock hitchhiking
out of town. Heck, we may even see a few rolls of film stock
try to commit suicide.
Well.....perhaps I exaggerate a little.
:gun: :gun: :gun:
Steve Gibby
Red Savant
IAN SUN
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Alexa who?
Robert Frank
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Yowza!
Roberto Lequeux
Well-known member
Are you serious? What is the compression ratio, I mean what is the size of 5k 24fps??
Holy @#$&! I didn't expect this so soon, so... FREE... I mean, nobody's purchase plans were based on this... so: FREE (and more will jump in!)
Is this famous #21?
Holy @#$&! I didn't expect this so soon, so... FREE... I mean, nobody's purchase plans were based on this... so: FREE (and more will jump in!)
Is this famous #21?
Roberto Lequeux
Well-known member
I am with you. I would love to see Alexa 1080p vs. M-X 4.5k at 2k on a controlled display environment to pixel peep and to push to the breaking point. I don't yet know if the weight of the mathematically losses mode is prohibitive to low budgets. However, I feel/assume that I won't have the slightest regret about 4.5k RC42. And... you will always have that 3.8k or whatever 4.5k measures out to, in case you get the funds to re-release, or to finish VFX and what not at 4k. More and more theaters are getting equipped for 4k, slowly but surely.
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