Milan Spasic
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Nobody really cares what you are sick of.
You obviously never shot a documentary or a live event of any kind.
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The next 4K digital mag for Aäton Penelope described by JP Beauviala! [english subt.]
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Nobody really cares what you are sick of.
You obviously never shot a documentary or a live event of any kind.
Thomas Chatelet
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There is a 3D picture of the 4K digimag, Penelope-D, just posted on Aäton's news page!
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Sanjin Jukic
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Mitch Gross
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Isn't she sexy?
Cüneyt Kaya
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she is sexy, i guess she will be booked out till end of the year once she hits the streets.
(it depends on the DR, noisefloor blalala)
defintly sexy
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Tim Naylor
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So glad to see this development along with Arri Alexa. I own and use my RED alot. It's been on five features over the last year, and I hate to say there's a "RED look" that seems to all too dominant. It's a look when treated right in post looks great but also has it's shortcomings that seem all too common, especially with indies.
I know Aaton or Arri won't compete with RED on price point, but at the end of the day, a body's a body. More than 2/3 of your equipment package consist of accessories, support and glass. So if the Aaton body, batts and mags hits you for 80,000 (my guess) and RED 25-30,000 grand you're looking at a 50 G difference. Does that warrant the purchase for most owner/ops? That's another set of lenses or two.
What I do like is the simplicity of both the Penelope/Alexa of having buttons instead of digging deep in the menu and most of all the ergnomics. Say good bye to Mantis like contraptions. Last is no more rolling shutter issues.
Don't get me wrong, it doesn't serve me to hype a camera that's not a RED (being an owner) but as a DP and not a rental house, I'm glad to see new blood and hopefully new and better looks.
I know Aaton or Arri won't compete with RED on price point, but at the end of the day, a body's a body. More than 2/3 of your equipment package consist of accessories, support and glass. So if the Aaton body, batts and mags hits you for 80,000 (my guess) and RED 25-30,000 grand you're looking at a 50 G difference. Does that warrant the purchase for most owner/ops? That's another set of lenses or two.
What I do like is the simplicity of both the Penelope/Alexa of having buttons instead of digging deep in the menu and most of all the ergnomics. Say good bye to Mantis like contraptions. Last is no more rolling shutter issues.
Don't get me wrong, it doesn't serve me to hype a camera that's not a RED (being an owner) but as a DP and not a rental house, I'm glad to see new blood and hopefully new and better looks.
Tim Morten
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More choices is always a good thing... as for whether they will actually be better, time will tell. Arri and Aaton make some great products.
But...
Workflow on Penelope (uncompressed) is going to be a bitch. So the cost isn't just the body (which is itself non-trivial).
Alexa sounds like it's an HD camera. No offense to all the Arri lovers, but that's so last decade.
As for the "Red look", I'd say that's been evolving a lot lately. Read some of the latest threads in Recon... the "look" of a build 15 camera is pretty different from the "look" of a build 30 camera... not to mention the "look" of an MX. And with just a little bit of reading between the lines, it sounds like the Red crew has some more tricks up their sleeve yet...
I don't mean to sound too "Red fanboy"... may the best camera win. I'm just of the opinion that from everything I've read, the best camera is going to have a "Red" logo on it for a while yet.
- Tim
But...
Workflow on Penelope (uncompressed) is going to be a bitch. So the cost isn't just the body (which is itself non-trivial).
Alexa sounds like it's an HD camera. No offense to all the Arri lovers, but that's so last decade.
As for the "Red look", I'd say that's been evolving a lot lately. Read some of the latest threads in Recon... the "look" of a build 15 camera is pretty different from the "look" of a build 30 camera... not to mention the "look" of an MX. And with just a little bit of reading between the lines, it sounds like the Red crew has some more tricks up their sleeve yet...
I don't mean to sound too "Red fanboy"... may the best camera win. I'm just of the opinion that from everything I've read, the best camera is going to have a "Red" logo on it for a while yet.
- Tim
Thomas Chatelet
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Thomas, JP surely could do that if he wants, and it also ups the data storage requirements 3x too
Graeme
Graeme, we have now the answer on Aäton's website: DPX will wrap a RAW file. You saw it right!
[Edit : I'm not so sure of that any more. The page on Aaton's website has disappeared. I guess we'll just have to wait for the NAB...]
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Mike Prevette
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WANT: Sexy sexy film/digital camera.
DO NOT WANT: uncompressed files from a camera and company whose lineage has always meant light and nimble. It just seems so god damned wrong. A company whose motto once was "like a cat on your shoulder" now making an elephant in your edit room.
DO NOT WANT: uncompressed files from a camera and company whose lineage has always meant light and nimble. It just seems so god damned wrong. A company whose motto once was "like a cat on your shoulder" now making an elephant in your edit room.
Mitch Gross
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Just wait, there's more news to come in a few days...
Dan Hudgins
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DNG vs. DPX
DNG vs. DPX
Someone should tell them to use DNG to wrap raw Bayer data NOT DPX, DNG is a better way to wrap RAW Bayer data, if they are using RGB raw in DPX like linear DNG that makes the files much larger, with DNG you can bit pack 12bits and have a longer scale for grading than DPX 10 bit log with unbalanced white (dark green image before color correction.)
I am getting good fps for conversion of true RAW Bayer data at 2.5K into workprint CCed files, on a fast computer it might go at 5fps or more, so its not a big deal, it just means the true RAW files are about 6x as large as the R3D for 24fps and without the "REDCODE" burned in look.
It seems Epic will have some kind of lossless option, so depending on if they use delta encoding or something that is indeed 100% lossless then we can see what the M-X sensor looks like without the burned in issues of the wavelet compression. I wish that would do the same for Scarlet, delta encoding is much less CPU load than REDCODE 42 so it should not be a technical issue just a philosophical one.
For shooting slow motion it is good to have the option to use REDCODE in wavelet mode, but many fine films are made with zero slow motion footage and would look better at full sensor bandwidth all through the image processing chain. It does not need to be yes or no, but it should be a choice for lossy or not lossy...
BTW, I'm working on DPX I/O in my de-Bayer and CC program, if anyone has any DPX files they can let me look at it would be a big help, and in particular DPX that have header info from a film scanner in the film and video values parts of the header, you can PM me and let me know how to download or email me the sample DPX files, thanks. The program I am working on will also CC DPX made by REDCINE and such so are of interest to RED users as well.
DNG vs. DPX
Someone should tell them to use DNG to wrap raw Bayer data NOT DPX, DNG is a better way to wrap RAW Bayer data, if they are using RGB raw in DPX like linear DNG that makes the files much larger, with DNG you can bit pack 12bits and have a longer scale for grading than DPX 10 bit log with unbalanced white (dark green image before color correction.)
I am getting good fps for conversion of true RAW Bayer data at 2.5K into workprint CCed files, on a fast computer it might go at 5fps or more, so its not a big deal, it just means the true RAW files are about 6x as large as the R3D for 24fps and without the "REDCODE" burned in look.
It seems Epic will have some kind of lossless option, so depending on if they use delta encoding or something that is indeed 100% lossless then we can see what the M-X sensor looks like without the burned in issues of the wavelet compression. I wish that would do the same for Scarlet, delta encoding is much less CPU load than REDCODE 42 so it should not be a technical issue just a philosophical one.
For shooting slow motion it is good to have the option to use REDCODE in wavelet mode, but many fine films are made with zero slow motion footage and would look better at full sensor bandwidth all through the image processing chain. It does not need to be yes or no, but it should be a choice for lossy or not lossy...
BTW, I'm working on DPX I/O in my de-Bayer and CC program, if anyone has any DPX files they can let me look at it would be a big help, and in particular DPX that have header info from a film scanner in the film and video values parts of the header, you can PM me and let me know how to download or email me the sample DPX files, thanks. The program I am working on will also CC DPX made by REDCINE and such so are of interest to RED users as well.
Thomas Chatelet
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The teasing is getting more and more specific!
Handheld intimacy, bright optical viewfinder, 4sec boot from zero power to REC-ready, three to six hour autonomy from onboard batteries, 13 stops dynamic range, DPX internal recording on Deltapack SSDs, simultaneous recording of DNxHD on SD card for immediate editorial availability...
Penelope-∆ brings film camera versatility to the digital shooting world.
Awesome!
Proxies on an SDCard to be able to edit immediately!
That's better than what I could imagine! Like I said, no need to bring 4K in your edit room! :001_cool:
We just need to start lobbying them with Apple ProRes in order to have at least the choice between DNxHD and ProRes...
Handheld intimacy, bright optical viewfinder, 4sec boot from zero power to REC-ready, three to six hour autonomy from onboard batteries, 13 stops dynamic range, DPX internal recording on Deltapack SSDs, simultaneous recording of DNxHD on SD card for immediate editorial availability...
Penelope-∆ brings film camera versatility to the digital shooting world.
Awesome!
Proxies on an SDCard to be able to edit immediately!
That's better than what I could imagine! Like I said, no need to bring 4K in your edit room! :001_cool:
We just need to start lobbying them with Apple ProRes in order to have at least the choice between DNxHD and ProRes...
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Dan Hudgins
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Proxies!
Proxies!
The way many people work is to hold the 4k untill after editing anyway, then conform, so if you have 1280x720 Proxies that should be enough for doing CC and such, you can always pull some 4K frames for FX and to look at in detail.
Its faster than way than maybe even using 4k R3D and RedRocket?
=
It would be better to have a 5K DNG option over DPX since if the 4K DPX are interpolated in the camera and resized that limits the quality and interpolation options for later pulling out all you can on a computer, interpolation affects the image noise as well as sharpness, so being able to control that is post should be an option.
Proxies!
The way many people work is to hold the 4k untill after editing anyway, then conform, so if you have 1280x720 Proxies that should be enough for doing CC and such, you can always pull some 4K frames for FX and to look at in detail.
Its faster than way than maybe even using 4k R3D and RedRocket?
=
It would be better to have a 5K DNG option over DPX since if the 4K DPX are interpolated in the camera and resized that limits the quality and interpolation options for later pulling out all you can on a computer, interpolation affects the image noise as well as sharpness, so being able to control that is post should be an option.
Thomas Chatelet
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You misunderstood my ton, I was enthusiastic!
And, if you read my previous posts on this topic, you will realize I'm a pro "1K proxies for the edit room" too.
This camera is what I call ergonomics!!
PS : for your 5K DNG point, I don't have the skills to discuss that far. Also, we'll have answers to that in a week now.
And, if you read my previous posts on this topic, you will realize I'm a pro "1K proxies for the edit room" too.
This camera is what I call ergonomics!!
PS : for your 5K DNG point, I don't have the skills to discuss that far. Also, we'll have answers to that in a week now.
Thomas Chatelet
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We now know the sensitivity of the Dalsa sensor and it's a dual one: 100 & 800 ISO!
I told you JP had a good plan for that part!
I only have a little objection about SDHC card for proxies' recording. In my view, SxS would have been a more reliable choice.
I told you JP had a good plan for that part!
I only have a little objection about SDHC card for proxies' recording. In my view, SxS would have been a more reliable choice.
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Cüneyt Kaya
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what a great cam!
and DNxHD offline files are coming a long (could silent my editors bitching over fcp...hehe)
with all the uncompressed talking, i am not sure if i really want UC.
mathematically lossless to save storage is the way to go inmho.
this thing with cineform RAW would be great.
But i dont even want to know how much this thing costs.
and i am sure, who can pay for this, can pay for the storage needed.
i expected the alexa to be more like this...ssd drives when i did read correct...no freezer needed.
SD cards for dnxhd?
and she looks ergonomic
i am missing a lightweight external monitor.
and DNxHD offline files are coming a long (could silent my editors bitching over fcp...hehe)
with all the uncompressed talking, i am not sure if i really want UC.
mathematically lossless to save storage is the way to go inmho.
this thing with cineform RAW would be great.
But i dont even want to know how much this thing costs.
and i am sure, who can pay for this, can pay for the storage needed.
i expected the alexa to be more like this...ssd drives when i did read correct...no freezer needed.
SD cards for dnxhd?
and she looks ergonomic
i am missing a lightweight external monitor.