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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Why I think RED Ray hasn't been released...

Joseph Hutson

Joseph Hutson

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EPIC's first stage was to be out in December. They were expecting EPIC stages 2-4 to be in full progression by March so RED Ray would have the demand. Since this demand isn't there, they are saving the "punch" for a little bit later when 5K is adopted more widely.

With "drama" that has apparently come up in the last 3 months, why would RED want to jump the gun and release RED Ray prematurely?

Thoughts?
 
I think the reason Red 4k hasn't been released is because RED figured out early on that the future of the codec was not as an optical disk, but as distribution format. That's the reason for the new movie studio, IMO, and probably behind closed doors plans are being made to marry an inexpensive projector that will travel easily and will deliver enormously. Red 4k, again IMO, will be the revolution in WATCHING movies in the very near future. It probably has nothing to do with any of the other products such as camera etc. It has to do with bringing all the pieces together and getting bulletproof patents, etc. in place.
 
Other than RED, what manufacturers have announced plans to manufacture redray hardware? What would be a reasonable number of companies before theaters would consider this technology? Would 1 be enough?
 
Aaron Newsome said:
Other than RED, what manufacturers have announced plans to manufacture redray hardware? What would be a reasonable number of companies before theaters would consider this technology? Would 1 be enough?
Click to expand...

I haven't heard of any other companies planning to support REDray- though I don't see why that would be necessary or in keeping with RED's standard gameplans.

Noah
 
If RedRay is essentially a software compression codec, why would it require dedicated hardware? How about a something like Cuda implementation for any Nvidia equipped computer?
 
Well what RED initially displayed was a disc playing hardware unit. Though I'd tend to agree at this stage in the game a software codec would make more sense.

Noah
 
Noah Kadner said:
Well what RED initially displayed was a disc playing hardware unit. Though I'd tend to agree at this stage in the game a software codec would make more sense.

Noah
Click to expand...

It was always going to be a codec which played on a specialised hardware unit. Optical media is only one possible form of delivery. Look at the specs of Red Ray Pro: gigabit and wireless ethernet, eSata and FW800, two 'front storage slots' and compact flash support. This one device would be able to play Red Ray data from virtually any digital storage format currently in popular use.
In addition, there's no reason why the same codec used in the hardware could also be used in computer software, providing the processor of the computer was fast enough to decode it.
 
The delay is likely due to very complex patent or trademark conflicts. There are tons of pre-existing patents involved in a product like that and a lot at stake so RED's attorneys are likely dotting their i's and crossing their t's carefully. Also, if there's a soda called Mountain Dew or Dr. Pepper, trademark case law makes it pretty hard to come out with a soft drink called Mountain Blue or Ms. Pepper.

I'm just sayin'

-michael zaletel
 
michael zaletel said:
The delay is likely due to very complex patent or trademark conflicts. There are tons of pre-existing patents involved in a product like that and a lot at stake so RED's attorneys are likely dotting their i's and crossing their t's carefully. Also, if there's a soda called Mountain Dew or Dr. Pepper, trademark case law makes it pretty hard to come out with a soft drink called Mountain Blue or Ms. Pepper.

I'm just sayin'

-michael zaletel
Click to expand...

You may have a point there. Being as they are supposedly calling RED Ray something like "RED 4K" now...
 
It hasn't been releaesed yet because of the gestation period of the Magic Pixie.

-sc

PS- Latest comments from Red indicate that the solution is no longer going to use optical discs... solid state media and HDD's would be the assumption. And perhaps streaming.
 
Noah Kadner said:
I haven't heard of any other companies planning to support REDray- though I don't see why that would be necessary or in keeping with RED's standard gameplans.

Noah
Click to expand...

I have no idea how the inner workings of movie theaters work but I was just curious if they would invest in projection hardware / software and technology technology that is only available from one company. I'd like to see how this one plays out.
 
One thing I'm curious about, what about an interactive menu layer? I've not heard anything about that.

Personally I'd like to see them adopt the old HD-DVD interactive menu language HDi, it was a solid implementation, based around existing HTML/CSS standards and was easy to develop for. Whatever they do they MUST avoid the nightmare that is Blu-ray authoring, a horrible mix of Java and proprietary crap with far too little memory available for menus.

Heck I'd be pretty happy with an enhanced DVD standard, with a bit more logic (if, thens, etc) and more memory and 24bit menu overlays, but keeping same basic concepts.
 
Yeah I've yet to see anything resembling a menu but I'm sure they're thinking about it. Personally I don't care as much about authoring as I do a simple playback menu and a disc is a single movie only. My believe is that the intention of RED-Ray has always been a simple and portable means of distribution, not a new Blu-ray or DVD format to retail with.

Noah
 
Noah Kadner said:
Yeah I've yet to see anything resembling a menu but I'm sure they're thinking about it. Personally I don't care as much about authoring as I do a simple playback menu and a disc is a single movie only. My believe is that the intention of RED-Ray has always been a simple and portable means of distribution, not a new Blu-ray or DVD format to retail with.
Click to expand...

True. I wouldn't be worried (or surprised) if the only menu was one to select a clip on the media.
 
It most likely isn't just one thing.

Also, developing and/or releasing new and advanced technology ahead of time can lead to things like platform support developers being caught with their pants down. Leading the pack often means having to wait the pack to catch up. There's no rush, anyway..
 
I'm not sure I agree with 'not being in a rush'.

If you take what is out there now for broadcast...basically HDSR is it for tape. HDCam is old 8 bit technology that most CDN broadcasters won't even accept. I haven't had to generate an SP in 2 years.

Being able to finish a project in 2K+ and then have a way to master it with the ability to output picture and sound to send to a post house that has HDSR for a downconversion would be fantastic. The SR is still 80,000+ with all the boards.

Even if Red Ray/4K is 1/10th the price and you add a Red Rocket, you're still potentially way ahead...and I'm referring to TV post work mostly here.

There is a huge gap and I would love to see something in action at NAB if possible.
 
Torrie said:
I'm not sure I agree with 'not being in a rush'.

If you take what is out there now for broadcast...basically HDSR is it for tape. HDCam is old 8 bit technology that most CDN broadcasters won't even accept. I haven't had to generate an SP in 2 years.

Being able to finish a project in 2K+ and then have a way to master it with the ability to output picture and sound to send to a post house that has HDSR for a downconversion would be fantastic. The SR is still 80,000+ with all the boards.

Even if Red Ray/4K is 1/10th the price and you add a RED Rocket™™, you're still potentially way ahead...and I'm referring to TV post work mostly here.

There is a huge gap and I would love to see something in action at NAB if possible.
Click to expand...

Well ... the missing link here IMHO is an affordable 4K display.

The more you look at RED originated content - the more your standards of image fidelity go up. I actually HATE watching 35mm prints now. Even if the film is shot on 35mm - I'll now take extra effort to see it projected digitally.

We are talking to a network about to launch a 3D channel in less than 8 weeks about producing content - and it is PAINFUL to see 4K 3D down to 1080i (WHY are we still broadcasting interlaced!!!) - in side-by-side format (think 50% of horizontal resolution) - then CRUSHED TO HOLY HELL in MPEG2. And yes - this network is looking at the option of a MPEG4 stream in a MPEG2 wrapper, etc. - but when these 3D channels launch - ya better lower your expectation with respect to image quality.

Sorry for the rant - but for the love of God - gimme my RED 4K !!!! And gimme 3D out of my RED RAY PRO player!!
 
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