Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

rolling shutter

C

Colin Hubick

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 23, 2007
Messages
629
Reaction score
0
Points
16
Location
Canada
Hi all, just a questions about those using the MX sensor in their RED ONE's. Has anybody noticed if the rolling shutter issues pertaining to Skew, Wobble, and Partial Exposure are better or the same as the original sensor. If the MX sensor is better, in what regards is it better?

Thanks
Colin
 
I'd also like to add, can you shoot 24fps 180 shutter under discharge lighting without flicker?

Nick
 
Mysterium X has a faster read-reset time (closer to the speed of a film shutter than the RED ONE was) so it should be better.

Not that there were any issues with skew or wobble the RED ONE - the only problems I heard about were some weird distortion in camera flashes.
 
Off the top of my head I remember Jim saying at Red Day they had measured the mysterium at 9ms, the X at 5ms, and film at 4ms. All of them substantially faster than other sensors which can be in the 20's. Please correct me if I'm wrong. The jist was almost no difference in speed between X and film. Of course your own needs and tests are what counts.
 
I have experienced rolling shutter artifacts when using strobes on the MX sensor. I can also see skew and wobble at 4.5k WS and 4k 16:9, it is not as bad as the Mysterium's shutter, but it's still there in moderate speed pans.
 
It has nothing to do with the "computing power" it's all about the capabilities of the sensor itself. And the MX sensor still has rolling shutter issues; because it uses a rolling shutter.
 
Unless Red implements some kind of physical shutter (like the Viper, D21, Origin, or Alexa) or a global shutter, you will always get some kind of rolling shutter artifact. That's the nature of how electronic rolling shutters work and there is no getting around it.
 
The MX sensor itself has timing that is very close to film shutter skew. At the moment we're focusing on image quality first on these builds before tuning the skew down as far as possible on the RED One body.
 
Blaire Johnson said:
Unless Red implements some kind of physical shutter (like the Viper, D21, Origin, or Alexa) or a global shutter, you will always get some kind of rolling shutter artifact. That's the nature of how electronic rolling shutters work and there is no getting around it.
Click to expand...

Film shutters are also rolling shutters but different in their position (near at one end and far at the other end for OVF and in the same plane for Viper).

Timing for a horiztonal wipe shutter is about 4ms.
 
need to look at lower read/reset soon..VFX are really hard on RED because of rolling shutter. at times they can't be tracked due to rolling
 
Thanks everybody for your comments. Visual effects is the very reason why I am asking. I knew from talking to a vfx friend from The Embassy that District 9 had hurdles to overcome with regards to this very topic.

One post solution is a plugin that The Foundry has called "RollingShutter" helps deal with these situations where needed. I have done tests with the original M sensor and this plug and have had very good results. But if the new sensor performs better in this regard it limits the need to use this plugin to some only very select shots. Which obviously saves time and money.

From the Foundry's website it mentions the following general values for good corrections.

RED One: 0.32
Canon 5DmkII: 0.56

Thanks again everybody.
Colin
 
Deanan said:
Film shutters are also rolling shutters but different in their position (near at one end and far at the other end for OVF and in the same plane for Viper).

Timing for a horiztonal wipe shutter is about 4ms.
Click to expand...

Deanan, from what I read the MX sensor is about 5ms? is this correct?
 
Rick Burnett said:
That is what I read as well in a few other posts by Red employees. Cannot wait to get my hands on a camera with these stats!
Click to expand...

It was until we turned down the clock speed to work on other things... like calibration, dynamic range and "stuff". It is now slightly faster than the M sensor, and we'll turn the clock speed back up when we are done "cleaning house" on the sensor.

Jim
 
Jannard said:
It was until we turned down the clock speed to work on other things... like calibration, dynamic range and "stuff". It is now slightly faster than the M sensor, and we'll turn the clock speed back up when we are done "cleaning house" on the sensor.

Jim
Click to expand...

Hey Jim, I talked to a rental house about the MX Camera's they have in to your shop, and they said that the sensor upgrade program is on pause, and I was told that no further camera's are being accepted for the upgrade due to some issues on Red's side. Can you confirm or explain this?

all the best
Colin
 
I am curious to know what the current reset time is for the sensor. Also when will the promised 5ms reset time be engaged?
 
Blaire Johnson said:
I am curious to know what the current reset time is for the sensor. Also when will the promised 5ms reset time be engaged?
Click to expand...

Current is 8.5ms (slightly less than the M sensor R1) and will be set to minimum when we have finished our work.

Jim
 
So, I hate to sound like a broken record, but will the new chip allow shooting 24 fps, 180 shutter under discharge lighting? Is the old Red one chip supposed to be able to?

Cheers,

Nick
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top