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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Arri Alexa and Mysterium-X...

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David Mullen ASC said:
It's a bit surreal when someone makes the argument that believing that there are multiple choices out there and being open to trying different products is a sign of close-mindedness and believing that Red is the only choice is a sign of open-mindedness! What sort of backwards thinking is that?
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After making a comprehensive analysis about what would fit the best to "contemporary"

or now-days filmmaker this decision was easy to make by following the famous idiom:

"All roads lead to Rome"

or in this case

"All roads lead to RED".

Take it or leave it but this opinion was based on a real calculation and not on any sort of brand affinity and affection.
 
Sanjin Jukic said:
Toady I just have a lot of fun grading R1-M-X Reel R3D offered by Jarred Land here.


M-X_Reel_fun02.jpg
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Great photo, SJ.
icon14.gif
Where can I find that clip of the car that Jarred shot?

I can't believe people are still trying to make Sanjin change his ways. :nono:

Why not embrace him for who he is? Every movement has its "die-hard" types. To me, he makes this place much more interesting. :cheers2:
 
Sanjin Jukic said:
...by following the famous idiom:

"All roads lead to Rome"

or in this case

"All roads lead to RED".
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And what if, for the project needs, or for my taste, I shoot with Canon/SonyEricsson/Arri... ? I understand your point Sanjin but you'r getting polemique here. :yesnod:

Pat
 
I'm amazed at all the banter on this little mini-article/blog post. Arri vs. Red! The way this is published, it comes across as being very informal.. I like seeing data, sides by sides, etc, moving pictures.. so I personally dismiss the "findings" as opinion until I see what is being referenced. ie: proof. Am I crazy for thinking this way?

peace,
~s
 
Sarah C. said:
I'm amazed at all the banter on this little mini-article/blog post. Arri vs. Red! The way this is published, it comes across as being very informal.. I like seeing data, sides by sides, etc, moving pictures.. so I personally dismiss the "findings" as opinion until I see what is being referenced. ie: proof. Am I crazy for thinking this way?

peace,
~s
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No you are right on target.
 
Graeme Nattress said:
Ok, this gets us back to the original question on sensitivity - how do you objectively do such a comparison? A linear digital sensor is a very different thing from a film density curve.

My original point is that linear light data is not how we view images, but it is a very good reference point for calculations based on them. You can develop a RAW file in an almost infinite variety of ways, many of which will be very valid (making nice looking images). If you compare different cameras each with a different curve applied then that comparison does not make sense. They should have the very same curve applied and that should be no curve at all - linear light data, and then you can see exactly what is happening. The article that prompted this was adamant that the Alexa was ISO800, but that somehow the M-X is fake pushed ISO800, and my point is that for either camera to make a viewable image at that rating, a development curve must be used and the precise nature of that curve will place mid grey such that in the final image produced a reasonable (a nice looking) image will be created.

And all this gets us back to that there is no definition of ISO for raw data and that our current ideas of sensitivity are all tied up with a gamma curve from when cameras were video cameras and had a very much fixed curve, or film where stocks had an ASA, but were routinely rated by their users at different values and pushed and pulled for the specific look / use they were being put to.

Graeme
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Might I suggest that, from now on, "Raw Exposure Index" (REI or Raw EI) be coined as a new term to describe this? (Different than Recommended Exposure Index)
 
David Mullen ASC said:
It's a bit surreal when someone makes the argument that believing that there are multiple choices out there and being open to trying different products is a sign of close-mindedness and believing that Red is the only choice is a sign of open-mindedness! What sort of backwards thinking is that?
Click to expand...

I'll leave you with a quote I heard with my own ears:

"...RED is a religion! Guilty as charged!" - Jim


;)
 
Michael Bravin said:
No worries Robert...I was just teasing you, ask away, that's the point of these lists
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Michael... quick question. Is the Alexa's real native sensitivity really 800?

Jim
 
David Mullen ASC said:
People here are naturally pro-digital and are up on the latest trends, but that's not necessarily the case with all directors out there. This transition from film to digital for features will not be as neat & clean as some people think it will be. We are talking about an art form here, and artists, and these are highly emotional people who don't always make decisions based on logic and rationality.
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Hey don't you DARE knock on the fact that I still mix up egg whites and hand-ground minerals for my paints! 'Undo' in Photoshop is terribly overrated.[/massive sarcasm]
 
Interesting Thread...
To me it is all about choices. Finding the right tool for the job is how I was taught.
Another thing you have to keep in mind is that everyone doesn't need to own a camera.
As an assistant, I work with a myriad of cameras and could care less how much they cost as long as they deliver what the DP wants.
Whatever the DP wants on any particular job is what I will be checking out.
All cameras are tools and all have strengths and some have less than desirable traits.
I am happy that Mr Jannard started this thread the way he did. It is also nice that Arri has gotten in "the game".
Let's see who joins them in a year from now?
Best,
Woody
 
I don't mean any disrespect to Arri but if the Arri native sensitivity is 800 then shooting at 320 will not be possible due to sensor overload issues which is why you can't shoot Red at 100. Does that mean that Epic range is 250-4000 and Alexa is 800-8000? If so I'll take 250-4000. Someone should ask for Alexa tests at ASA250 or 320 to make sure you can do that without problems. Is this why Jim asked Michael that question?
 
If Arri was using Basic-Sauce technology you might be right. But because Arri is using Special-Sauce technology the kind of sensor overload you're talking about at 320 is not an issue.
 
It sounds like Alexa is pretty close to MX in many ways except resolution. I asked on CML also, but when should we expect an Alexa that is comparable to MX or Epic rather than Scarlet's 3k instead? End of year?
 
Blaire Johnson said:
If Arri was using Basic-Sauce technology you might be right. But because Arri is using Special-Sauce technology the kind of sensor overload you're talking about at 320 is not an issue.
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That sounds nice. No offense but show me.
 
They might have special sauce, but they don't have magic pixies. As in always, a picture tells a thousand words and shooting at a range of ISOs will show what is going on.

Graeme
 
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