Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

To be a cinematographer...

K

Kevin Stokes

Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2009
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Age
52
Since I took my first helicopter flight at 9, I have wanted to fly. I didn't want the military, but couldn't afford private lessons. So off to college I went. Studies went well and I left with a decent GPA and a piece of paper that said I'd made something of myself.

Spent 4 years job to job never shaking the feeling that I was wasting my life.

One day, after I couldn't take it anymore, I finally committed. Enlisted in the Army National Guard, then a couple years later was selected for flight training. 12 countries and 1,300 flight hours later I was happy, I truly had made it.

Then I flew in a National Guard music video (Kid Rock's "Warrior") in Santa Clarita. WTF? I'd watched a lot of DVD extras, but I had no idea. First thing I thought was ESPN & Days of Thunder.

I can no longer ignore the man behind the curtain. Turns out she's beautifully flawed and absolutely mesmerizing. She'll probably crush my soul, but I'll let her it. I can't stop her.

I tried to fix the urge with helping new friends on their video projects. I've produced 2 of my own (they are abysmal!!!), helped another friend get to the next town on his project. I've read as many scripts as I can get my hands on. Hell, on Tuesday night I auditioned for a part in an independent film. Anything to get started, to get moving forward.

Still the urge is left unscratched. Then it hit me.

I've been treating my newly discovered vocation, my true calling as a hobby. For some, there is nothing wrong with that in any way shape or form. For me, though, it ends today.

Knowing full well the value of academics AND on the job training (something the Army does better than any organization on earth, bar none), I'm looking for advice on where to go to get the same for this career field.

This is the only forum that I have found that is filled with people that I can relate to. From the outside looking in, I'd say the RED community is different. Different in the way trigger pullers are different from fobbits.

Can anyone point me to the path of becoming a professional (as in profession, not title) cinematographer?

Thank you,

Kevin Stokes
Boise, Idaho
 
Kevin-

My suggestions- start interning as a camera assistant on indies, then ultimately you'll start getting paid work as an AC if you're good. Finally you'll move up to operator and ultimately a DP. You can also get there sometimes via being a gaffer as well. But it will take at least a couple of years. That's one way.

Or get a good camera package and offer your services to friends and family- anyone who can take you on. Start building up a reel. If you're really good at both shooting and networking you'll start getting paid gigs and bigger and better projects. Again- this can take 2-10 years depending on luck factor.

I'd also suggest lots of reading- head over to your local Barnes and Noble or Borders- start reading all of their cinematography books. Get a subscription to American Cinematographer and the SOC magazine.

That should get you started. If it's something you truly love, you have some good skill at, you're committed 100% for the long haul, and you're lucky- you'll get there.

-Noah
 
My suggestions- start interning as a camera assistant on indies, then ultimately you'll start getting paid work as an AC if you're good. Finally you'll move up to operator and ultimately a DP. You can also get there sometimes via being a gaffer as well. But it will take at least a couple of years. That's one way.

Or get a good camera package and offer your services to friends and family- anyone who can take you on. Start building up a reel. If you're really good at both shooting and networking you'll start getting paid gigs and bigger and better projects. Again- this can take 2-10 years depending on luck factor.
Click to expand...

I agree 100 percent, with one added note. If you are shooting weddings, or working on no budget indies with a DP and a crew that barely have more experience than you, you are going to learn very slowly, and you may be learning bad habits. In addition to the above, try to get on big shows any way you can. Even being a PA, you will be on set, and get to see how to do it the right way (well hopefully, I've seen some really big jobs do some really stupid things). There are a million things to learn, and you won't even realize how little you know till you are a few years in. Best job ever though ;-)

Nick
 
Build a reel, cold call every production house in your market, take whatever is offered and start climbin' ladders. Staff until you are ready to go freelance. Keep adding to your reel. It's what will lead you to bigger better jobs and gigs.
 
Learning to become a cinematographer and building a professional career are separate concerns though interconnected.

I found the first easier than the second simply because if you are good at educating yourself, can do research and like to read, and you can get ahold of a camera to shoot, it's not hard to learn independently. And considering all the talented people you will end up competing with, it's more or less required that you master your craft.

But learning to build a career and find work in that career, well, that's much harder in some ways because that requires other people -- even if you decide to create your own business and become your own boss, you still have to find clients, investors, etc. I didn't have much of a clue as to how to do the second, I just figured if I got really, really, really good at cinematography, someone was bound to notice. And they did, and they still do, but it's not the fastest way to build a career -- your work sort of snowballs over time as you make more and more contacts.
 
Kevin,

Keep asking lots of questions, be a knowledge sponge - soak up as much as you can every day.

As David mentioned, your art and your business don't always coincide. Strive to be equal parts artist, techie, manager, and journalist. You'll need to be strong in all those areas to enhance your chances of success - whether you start your own company as an indie, freelance, are an in-house employee, and/or are a contract worker for someone else - or a combination of the above.

Practice your craft daily - most of your competition in the motion media industry will.

You'll need the Four T's:

Talent - you're born with that. Its not something you learn.

Training - on the job, workshops, seminars, forums, hands-on practice by yourself. All this leads to experience.

Technology - comb every key tech web site for your craft daily, such as RED User and tons of others. Practice hands-on to master the tech of your work niche.

Tenacity - you have to be like a pit bull, latching on, persevering, and believing in yourself. You just can't have any "quit" in you at all.


The X-factor is passion for your work. If someone is passionate about their craft, all thing being equal, they will probably do much better work.

Be challenge driven - if you do what you do well enough, for long enough, money will usually take care of itself.

If you believe you have the Four T's, and your willing to work hard to be equal parts ATMJ (see above), you just may do extremely well in this industry.

Remember, the more you learn, the more you should realize you don't know. The point at which you feel you have all the answers - is the point at which you begin to stagnate in your work.

This industry is dynamic, not static. Keep up - or be left behind.

Nothing of any value is achieved easily - otherwise we wouldn't value it highly, and there would be a lot of people succeeding in it easily. That's not the case with cinematography, or any other professional job in the motion media industry. The real successful people in this industry, regardless of their job niche, have practiced the above to get where they are.

Have fun with your work - IMO this is the best industry on earth to be in!!

Hope the above helps...
 
Not that I'm any kind of cinematographer to speak of but I share an office with some.

I find that the work I do to make my living generally drags me down where as the stuff I do for free (or almost for free) often leads to new opportunities. I've learned alot through working in many capacities on many film sets, you can't skip that, but some of my most creative work still happened when I was young and curious. Working can turn you into an old dog quick if you don't have a solid footing as an artist.

So I'd say delay getting paid to shoot for as long as you can, simply because most of the time I find that you are being paid to do something you've already done whereas something you haven't done before... you aren't likely to get paid... the first time ;) So shoot for yourself and to learn... work with other students... try to achieve artistic goals not financial ones and the whole professional getting paid thing will come as it will.

Oh yeah and then move to New York or L.A. You need to be part of a filmmaking community and the internet doesn't count. New York is better because it's easier to hide how broke you are.

IBloom
 
Everyone,
Thanks for the advice. My day job doesn't get me any where near a camera so I've been learning has been on my own, read it and then try to mess with my own.

@Brad: Thanks for the heads up on the David Mullen thread. Didn't know what that was.

Last week I recieved a copy of the green ASC manual. It's a little over my head, but I'll get there.

@Steve: the 4 T's sound like a say we have in Army Aviation (not unique by any means) "How do you eat an elephant? Get a knife & fork and take one bite at a time."

My biggest challenge to date has been my market. Boise, Idaho
Although we have a growing film community, most do it on the side and pretty sporadically. I can count on 1 hand the # of independent films that come through here. The latest conflicted too much with my day job (child support & student loans are a b*tch) to get on the crew.

I did purchase a VIXIA HFS-100 and shot a documentary of a 2500 mile motorcycle trip with my family this past August. Decent camera and right for the job (I was the entire production team and I was riding). I'm learing to use it better.

I'm not afraid to become a Jack of all trades, but here's my one concern that I'm struggling with. I have soooo much to learn about this business that I keep getting distracted by all the other things that I keep learning on the way. Bright shiny objects keep kicking my ass. I'll keep at it, I have no choice, this has me the same way flying got me as a child.

I digress, I've been reading about the REDucation workshops...wondering if that would be worth my time or if I should start with something at a lower skill level. Any ideas?

Thanks,

Kevin Stokes
 
Best of luck to you. If I could briefly sum up filmmaking it would be "The agony and the ecstasy". I agree whole heartedly with ibloom. Create your grounding as an artist first. Flourish. Be creatively greedy. And then face the commercial world. You'll come off as a more fully formed artist. And remember, you never stop learning.

Btw, good call on the HFS-100. Best camera in it's class.
 
Kevin Stokes said:
Knowing full well the value of academics AND on the job training (something the Army does better than any organization on earth, bar none), I'm looking for advice on where to go to get the same for this career field.
Click to expand...
Does your question contain the answer? Is there anything in the Army?
 
Kevin, there's more than one pilot around reduser.net who's moved to the world of cinematography! I can tell you first hand that your attention to detail and "number of landings = number of takeoffs" attitude of being a pilot will serve you well in this field! :)

Well done for acting on your dream. Too few people ever do. Break a leg!

Paul (ex-RAAF and airline pilot)
 
I know it sounds strange but the best thing to do is stay obsessed and the knowledge will come. I'm a college student with a busy class schedule but every moment that I am not working, I am doing everything and anything to learn the art of cinematography. Read, Read, Read, Practice, Practice, Practice. I have read every library book relating to cinematography and watch about 7 to 8 movies a week. I am a member of a couple cinematography forums. Additionally, get a job that will force you to learn. I work for a TV studio as a cam operator and I have learned so much from that. Other suggestions. Take up hobbies that are related to cinematography. At school, I am a traditional film photographer and this teaches you about shot framing, dof, exposure ect. I work in the drama department as a set builder and this helps with lighting design and grip education. You sound like you are on the right track. As someone who wants to be a dp/director, I understand how daunting this industry seems but stick with it and you will be surprised how much you can teach yourself. Film school is not a requirement but it can help if you have the money. I am looking at grad cinematography studies but doubt I can afford it so I am teaching myself in the meantime.
 
Play to your strengths. Your a helicopter pilot with a love for the cinematic. There is no reason those things have to be exclusive.
 
Chris Forbes said:
Play to your strengths. Your a helicopter pilot with a love for the cinematic. There is no reason those things have to be exclusive.
Click to expand...

Great idea. See if you can start with a company that does ariels since you already have the helicopter thing down. You would get to work with some very high end gear.

This is the type of company I would look into: http://pictorvision.com/
 
Kevin, much has been said, my only honest advise.. Persevere your dream, and or cause, never letting go, and you get what you want, if you really want something and go after it, with all yourself, you will achieve it, you did that already with your dream of flying, well do the same once again, just this time follow some of the great advises already given here, and you will get there to be what you want to be.

Knowledge is easy to come by, do like I did, ask a million questions abut anything to do with what you want to know about, and watch every single behind the scenes you can, on any movie you rent and or buy, read books, study by watching video lessons on the net, do what ever it takes to gain knowledge, but then remember that knowledge is only a small part of the process, were experience is really what it is all about, and in the Arts one must have a vision, if you plan to just be a Cameraman, then is different just point the camera at what you are told to point at, frame, and shoot, but a Cinematographer is much more then that, learn lighting, to me one of the most important things of all in cinematography, you don't need to become a DP, but learn the basics, will serve you well, know your gear, technology today helps a lot.

As far as a carrier, if you really wish to make a name for yourself, don't ever do anything that you personally don't like, and or consider offensive to your character and or persona, do what you like, and you will never work a day in your life, carriers are made and broken by taking on the wrong projects for the wrong reasons, money.

This off course are my points of view based on how I think.

Best of luck.
 
If you have an undergrad degree you might want to look into grad school; I'm getting rejected from every last one I apply to, but yours is the kind of story they seem to love and there are affordable ones, though those are even far more competitive.

Otherwise, it seems the answer is to work your way up on set, either starting as an AC or a grip. This is the method I'm going to try next, but you need to have some money saved up since your first gigs won't pay. You really need to be in LA or NYC to do this (maybe Vancouver) and networking is key so work hard even if your job is just to sit by the lights and guard them or sit by the condor or whatever. If you're very good you can be DPing stuff in a few years (and making a living way before then) but generally it takes a miracle to reach the ASC before age 40 and of course very few are given that honor at all, so realize this is a life-long commitment.

I also recommend reading an extremely basic intro to filmmaking book or taking some intro courses. This is my favorite book but there are plenty. Once you know the basic technical stuff (output, cri, color temperature, lens stop and length, soft light vs. hard light, reflectors and butterflies, basic set-ups for each type of scene ext. and int., iso and characteristic curve, camera movement and how it's achieved, normal coverage for dialogue, etc.) and what each light does you can start reading ASC articles, which are incredibly helpful on the more "academic" than directly practical side (you won't be working with that kind of gear to start) but awesome all around.

I'm not sure if this is what works but it's what I've read and been told countless times.
 
Last edited:
Cinematography Grad studies are a hard thing to do. There is so much competition and if you are applying to places like AFI and USC, than you almost need to be a DP already. I have seen demo reels by people who were rejected and I was blown away by how good they were. I think that they are looking for out of the box stuff. There are many people who can light a scene well and pick a good angle. There are many good photographers who can take technically great photos but the best create their own unique style that is easily recognizable. The best DP's have a unique look that they carry from film to film. I am working on a reel and I intend to fill it with as many unique angles, colors and lighting situations as possible. Basically, think, "what can I do that no one else has or will do?" when you do that, you surpass your competition.
 
As a USC reject (almost officially now!) who's proud of his reel given its super micro-budget origins (I know it's not great by any other standards), I have to set the record straight a bit: I've recently learned that most grad schools don't require a good reel (or good academics, even) so much as just good storytelling abilities and a good eye. AFI, it seems, is the only school that wants you to have significant prior experience as a prerequisite.

To be honest, this seems fairer to me. If you have the ambition, drive, and potential, why require something that the schools want to teach you in the first place?
 
Last edited:
I'm looking at moving out west and applying for grad school myself... What is it they look for? Should I not even bother if my last name isn't Gonzales or Ramirez?

Maybe we need a "Why you're not getting into grad school..." thread.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top