Zeiss prime lenses?

[Isaac Bauman]

Hey, n00b question here, but I can't really seem to find definitive answers out there.

I'm shooting a feature in a couple months and trying to decide on my lens package. I'm going to be shooting with as much natural light as possible, and definitely want to go with a set of primes.

What, exactly, is the difference between the Zeiss Master Primes, Super Speeds, and Ultra Primes?

Am I correct in my assumption that the Master Primes would be the fastest/sharpest, then the Ultra Primes, and then the Super Speeds?

 

[jonnycom]

You are correct in your assumption. For the most part Super Speeds suck on the Red.

 

[Andrew Ceperley]

I used the Super Speeds on the Red not too long ago and absolutely loved them. I thought they had a more distinctive look than the newer sharper lenses...especially wide open. Great in natural light too. I would shoot with them again on the Red, no question.

Why do you say they suck on the Red? Just a personal taste thing, or am I totally oblivious to something terrible (a distinct possibility)?

 

[Evin Grant]

Master primes= highest speed, best performance & extravagant price.
Ultra primes= fantastic performance, good speed, reasonable but not cheap price.
Super Speeds= average performance from 1.3-2.8 excellent after that, high speed. good price.
Standard Speed primes= excellent performance, average speed, best bang for buck price.

 

[jonnycom]

No, their OK closed down a bit..... but wide open and yikes, if your shooting a horror film the look works in a scary dream state kind of way.....

 

[Isaac Bauman]

Master primes= highest speed, best performance & extravagant price.
Ultra primes= fantastic performance, good speed, reasonable but not cheap price.
Super Speeds= average performance from 1.3-2.8 excellent after that, high speed. good price.
Standard Speed primes= excellent performance, average speed, best bang for buck price.

Thanks Evan, that's really the first time I've seen it laid out so clearly like that. Exactly what I was looking for.

Also, what's the deal with the cine lens price inflation? If, theoretically, I was in the market to buy a set of Zeiss's, should I be looking for a significant price drop after the RPPs and other similar lenses come out later this year?

Furthermore, as far as I understand - the Zeiss MPs are considered to be on a relatively equal level with Panavision Primos and Cooke S4 sets? Are there other lens sets at this caliber or are those the "Big 3"?

 

[Stephen Williams]

Yes, a clean set of Standards could not be shifted 6 years ago for $8,000, there is no reason to believe that won't happen again

 

[Tom Lowe]

Master primes= highest speed, best performance & extravagant price.
Ultra primes= fantastic performance, good speed, reasonable but not cheap price.
Super Speeds= average performance from 1.3-2.8 excellent after that, high speed. good price.
Standard Speed primes= excellent performance, average speed, best bang for buck price.

Evin, do I need to stop down standards to increase image quality? I'll be shooting mostly at 3K 50fps 16:9. Any advice for shooting natural light on standards? I just got a set: 16mm - 85mm.

They are very light and compact!

 

[Pawel Achtel]

Evin, do I need to stop down standards to increase image quality? I'll be shooting mostly at 3K 50fps 16:9. Any advice for shooting natural light on standards? I just got a set: 16mm - 85mm.

They are very light and compact!

The MTF usualy peeks around f/4, same for most UPs and MPs.

 

[Sarah C.]

Evin, do I need to stop down standards to increase image quality? I'll be shooting mostly at 3K 50fps 16:9. Any advice for shooting natural light on standards? I just got a set: 16mm - 85mm.

They are very light and compact!

Hey Tom,

Went to same photography school as Evin, we were even on the same team for one class. Suggest if you are shooting something critical(which I know you are)... test your gear. Mr. Mullen probably has info in his thread about how to do that? .. I'm guessing? Grid chart, etc. is what I am referring to.

regards,
~s

 

[Tom Lowe]

Are there any restrictions on format size I can shoot on Zeiss standards? 4K 16:9? 4.5K? Vignetting?

 

[Charles Angus]

I used the Super Speeds on the Red not too long ago and absolutely loved them. I thought they had a more distinctive look than the newer sharper lenses...especially wide open. Great in natural light too. I would shoot with them again on the Red, no question.

Why do you say they suck on the Red? Just a personal taste thing, or am I totally oblivious to something terrible (a distinct possibility)?

Personally, I find that Superspeeds look like you are shooting through a heavy diffusion filter until about an f/2-f/2.8 split. There is a distinct overlay of a soft image over a sharp image (and at 1.3, that soft image is very soft).

Looks like spherical aberration to me, a common problem on fast lenses.

 

[sergio arguello]

Master primes= highest speed, best performance & extravagant price.
Ultra primes= fantastic performance, good speed, reasonable but not cheap price.
Super Speeds= average performance from 1.3-2.8 excellent after that, high speed. good price.
Standard Speed primes= excellent performance, average speed, best bang for buck price.

So that said Evin unless you have ultraprime money your ability to cinematically speak through depth of field play becomes hindered with
the older sets correct?
If thats so RPP suddenly look like bang for the buck choice glass out of whats out there today

 

[Zakaree Sandberg]

I dont know why everyone is ripping on supers.. they look great.
and honestly.. i have never had another DP request standards when they ask me for a package.

its always super speeds.

dont get me wrong though.. I LOVE the standard speeds.. I would get a set if I could rent them.. but I just dont see the demand

 

[Johnny St.Ours]

I love superspeeds- I know I'm not the only one who thinks they're a perfect match for Red.

Zakaree- Meant to write you back and thank you for the sticks- put 'em through their paces yesterday and they served me well!
So, do you have a set of supers?

 

[Zakaree Sandberg]

good to hear Johnny! they are nice solid sticks!

I do not have a set of supers.. I only have zeiss ZF lenses (modded with gear , de iris and 80mm fronts) they look great.. just cant bring them on a "REAL" set because people think they lack in some way... (even though my pro lock mount keeps them rock solid on the camera... and they look great.. and reverse focusing is a non issue with me)

I am always on the hunt for a nice set of pl mount lenses.. but the prices still feel inflated to me... ive said it a million times here.. but i REALLY want a nice rehoused cooke panchro set (pl mount)

Im really into the organic warm, contrasty feel of old glass like that or the super baltars... they seem to give the most film like INDIE quality.. if that makes any sense..

Im not into the lifeless, sharp as balls, look of newer glass.. it bores me to death.

 

[Samuel Martin]

glass

glass

Don't blame the lenses, blame the people using them. Anyone who says they can't create awesome work with a RED and a set of superspeeds means they're just incompetent. They are great lenses, the problem is that there are a lot of people out there on sets, claiming they are experts on the matter, call themselves DPs but they don't really have a faint clue. The way I have seen some people operating 35mm lenses sometimes... Shocking!

All lenses have different looks but when the budgets are tight and getting a set of Cooke S4 is just a dream, T1.3s are still superb lenses and any good DP might crinch but still get you some very, very cool images. He won't remember the job as a highlight in his career though but as a true pro he will make the most of them. And I bet you he won't be using them wide open but at T2 or 2.8!!

Ultraprimes are fantastic too!!