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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Pilot shoot in Chicago

David Mullen ASC

David Mullen ASC

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I'm going to be in Chicago starting Feb.18 to begin prep on a TV pilot using Red MX cameras (hopefully). I'd like to know what sort of Red support exists in town, particularly on the post side. I also might be shooting a couple of shots on a Canon DSLR, so any post houses that can support that footage too.
 
Sent you a PM.

Can't wait! Hope you are here for a couple days, as I will be shooting that weekend.
 
David

I think Filmworkers is a great place.

Digital kitchen also handles a variety of projects and at different stages http://www.d-kitchen.com/

If you're looking for any hands and/or cameras, I'd be eager to help as I live in Chicago.
 
I'm east of Chicago in Pittsburgh PA.

Let me know if you need anything RED.

Dave
 
Fletcher Chicago is excellent for production packages and support

http://www.fletch.com/
(312) 335-1408
Talk to Tom Fletcher

Filmworkers is great, and you could also try Protein Editorial - they've been handling a lot of Red post for a while, mainly high-end spots

http://www.proteineditorial.com/site/samples/mainmenu.html
312-829-1500
Talk to Clark Jackson

Chicago! I'm jealous... I miss my old town!....

Best of luck on the shoot!
 
When I was there last year, Fletcher was a great help at very competitive prices.
Just so you know, Zakuto is also located in Chicago with tones of litlle useful items in their showroom.
 
Abel Chicago is available to assist as well!

Filmworkers is a good house but I really like Optimus. I know that they really understand Phantom the best, which says to me that they likely understand RED best as well.
 
Optimus - Craig (Colorist) is great. Talk to Tom Duff for general info. They can get you what you need.
Filmworkers is top notch as well. They have a good dailies setup too.
Fletcher for camera support. (Tom is very active in the community)
There are a number of stages and lighting rental companies as well.

I own music and sound design companies Hoffman Sound and Jira Productions.

If you need any info or direction for your Chicago trip please feel free to contact me.


I've worked with these companies for years and they are at the heart of the Chicago post community.

Nice to see the work here in Chi-town.
 
I spent yesterday shooting tests of the new M-X sensor over at Fletcher. They borrowed a converted Red from OffHollywood because their Reds are still being converted.

We had a few hiccups in the morning -- we had some problem with the blacks going green as we pushed the ASA heavily, and black shading again didn't help... but Red sent us some new software that fixed the problem and the blacks stayed neutral after that.

I did most of my testing in 3200K balance because, frankly, almost all low-light shooting is near 3200K, plus Chicago is mostly lit by orange sodium vapor streetlamps at night.

We also went out and shot some driving shots in daytime and night.

My initial impressions just based on seeing the image live on a Cinetal monitor and then later after transcoding using Fletcher's RED Rocket™™ on the same monitor:

There has been a major improvement in the Red image since I last used the camera in the summer of 2008. It's night and day, the quality is SO much better now.

First of all the image is very low in noise. And what noise you see at higher ASA ratings like 800, 1000, 1600, 2000 ASA in 3200K lighting looks much more subtle, almost like mild film grain, not that ugly blue mottled grain that you got on earlier builds on the old sensor when boosting a 3200K image. In other words, the look of the noise is a lot more attractive. And the increase in noise as you go up in ASA ratings is not fast, you don't see big jumps in noisiness.

There is a smoothness to the image -- RedGamma is a superior format to convert the image too, you get a wide latitude image that looks very pleasant and is easy to correct (I think -- I haven't done that step yet). The clippiness of the image is greatly reduced.

The image is sharp but not electronically crisp, it's smooth and elegant.

I shot outside in daytime at 400 ASA, then at night in the brighter parts of the city at 800 ASA, then out in some dark areas of the city at 1600 ASA. I picked 400 ASA for the day exterior work mainly because I find that higher ASA ratings are hard to deal with in sunlight due to the heaviness of the ND filters needed.

In testing, I noticed that when I set the camera to 320 ASA, the brightness of the image in RedColor matched the brightness in RAW View -- the crossover point on an 11-step chart matched each other. At higher ASA ratings, there was more overexposure headroom added (obviously.) I don't know if this means that the "real" sensitivity of the MX sensor is 320 ASA, it all depends on whether you want some decent overexposure headroom.

But the noise is so low that I think 500 to 800 ASA is a good starting point because you get a more film-like response in the highlights.

This is a gross simplification, but I've always felt that the "film look" was low in contrast in the highlights but higher in contrast in the shadows, whereas the "video look" has traditionally been high in contrast in the highlights but low in contrast in the shadows. So I think that the M-X Red rated near 800 ASA starts to look more film-ish because of the nice roll-off in the overexposed areas (also I guess thanks to the improved Color Science, RedGamma, and FLUT™™ controls). But the new sensor helps a lot in this regards because the low noise floor allows you to essentially expose more for the highlights by using higher ASA ratings (i.e. underexposing the sensor.)

I also appreciate that the image does not have a "crispy" overly edgy look built-in -- I can always add it later in post if I wanted to.

The new M-X sensor, the new Color Science, RedColor & RedGamma -- it's all a great leap forward compared to where Red was a year ago.

I'm finding now that my only problems are post-related -- trying to get everyone comfortable with the data-centric workflow, getting data from Chicago to Los Angeles where the post is taking place, finding out which post houses can handle the M-X sensor footage properly. That's still a bit of a hassle for me to deal with and I'm hoping that the network making this pilot doesn't get cold feet as we deal with these workflow issues.
 
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>>This is a gross simplification, but I've always felt that the "film look" was low in contrast in the highlights but higher in contrast in the shadows, whereas the "video look" has traditionally been high in contrast in the highlights but low in contrast in the shadows. So I think that the M-X Red rated near 800 ASA starts to look more film-ish because of the nice roll-off in the overexposed areas (also I guess thanks to the improved Color Science, RedGamma, and FLUT™™™ controls). But the new sensor helps a lot in this regards because the low noise floor allows you to essentially expose more for the highlights by using higher ASA ratings (i.e. underexposing the sensor.)<<

David, that's an excellent observation. I feel exactly the same way.
Please keep us posted on your impressions whenever you can during the course of your job there.
PS- Optimus has posted many spots that I've worked on in New York (not sure why, it's an agency thing) Every single pre-pro call that I've had with them has been a real pleasure. They seem to REALLY know their stuff, much more than many other post facilities I've dealt with.
Break a leg!
Cheers,
Harry
 
David Mullen ASC said:
I shot outside in daytime at 400 ASA, then at night in the brighter parts of the city at 800 ASA, then out in some dark areas of the city at 1600 ASA. I picked 400 ASA for the day exterior work mainly because I find that higher ASA ratings are hard to deal with in sunlight due to the heaviness of the ND filters needed.
Click to expand...

I had the opportunity to do a shoot out between the two sensors this week.

After looking at the results in both REDCINE-X and on a Lustre from DPX files processed through R-X, I think you are missing out on the advantages of this new sensor if you rate it at 400. Especially outside.

I found that with a base "ISO" of 320, at 1.5 stops "over", the "white" chip on a Macbeth chart and the one next to it became indistinguishable. So any objects close to white (i.e. clouds) would be clipped beyond recovery.

However we could go miles in to the shadows - easily four stops - and recover usable information. You could actually get a pretty "normal" looking image out of a shot that was three stops underexposed.

So - as RED continually tells us...don't be afraid of the dark.

By rating at 400 you are limiting yourself to very little overexposure latitude.

I think rating at 1000 outside might not be as crazy as it sounds - except for the hassle that you describe in having to use very heavy ND.

On the upside. We also did an IR test on the new sensor and IR is WAAAY less of an issue than the previous sensor.

Crack out the ND 2.1's!

Thanks for sharing David.
 
My tests at 400 ASA didn't reveal the same clip point you are describing. It seemed to me that the native sensor sensitivity is around that point and the information between highlights and shadows is evenly split at 400 ASA -- if you look at the image in RAW at an 11-step chip chart, you see that. It's just that the low noise allows higher ratings where you will see even more latitude for overexposure, but I found that the overexposure latitude seemed fine at 400 ASA. Obviously I will watch my bright areas when setting the final exposure and favor them over the shadows to reduce clipping.

The problem with ND's that are heavier than 1.2 is not just IR pollution, they are hard to find at rental houses and many of them have color casts to them. Maybe I'll change my mind but for now I am comfortable with rating the camera at 400 ASA for day work.
 
David Mullen ASC said:
My tests at 400 ASA didn't reveal the same clip point you are describing. It seemed to me that the native sensor sensitivity is around that point and the information between highlights and shadows is evenly split at 400 ASA -- if you look at the image in RAW at an 11-step chip chart, you see that. It's just that the low noise allows higher ratings where you will see even more latitude for overexposure, but I found that the overexposure latitude seemed fine at 400 ASA.
Click to expand...

Interesting. I have only done quick scans of the footage, but I definitely found more usable information in the underexposed shots than the overexposed ones.

Sounds like we did different tests though. I didn't have an 11 step chart to be able to view the latitude within one exposure (just the Macbeth). Instead I bracketed in 1/3 stops from three over to eight under. 2 over - highlight info was unrecoverable. 1 over it was. Because time was limited we didn't look for the threshold.

Hopefully will be able to post some more useful and definitive results next week.
 
David Mullen ASC said:
I'm finding now that my only problems are post-related -- trying to get everyone comfortable with the data-centric workflow, getting data from Chicago to Los Angeles where the post is taking place, finding out which post houses can handle the M-X sensor footage properly. That's still a bit of a hassle for me to deal with and I'm hoping that the network making this pilot doesn't get cold feet as we deal with these workflow issues.
Click to expand...

David - I'm totally proud to be able to say your first Mysterium-X experience was on one of our cameras. Please feel free have any post vendors contact me - I'd be happy to help in any way (not to mention - I've been looking for a "strategic relationship" in Chicago for a while). I'm sad I'm I don't have a post facility in Chicago. It's a actually a great market for many reasons. Thanks for all your great contributions to the Reduser community over the years. Please feel free to reach out to me anytime for anything.
 
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