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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

MAX Setting? Check or Uncheck for 4k

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Dave Edsall

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Does anyone know what the Max setting is all about? I've been told by post houses to uncheck it so that they can have better manipulation of the footage. Is this true? Just looking through the manual for B21 all it has about it is-

"MAX
Leave checked for maximum image quality recording. If shooting at 23.98 fps and 4K HD resolution, you
may wish to uncheck the MAX mode box before recording. This lowers the absolute image quality, but
permits real time .R3D decoding and scaling to 1920 x 1080 progressive RGB when using commonly
available CPU based post production applications."

How much is the image quality being lowered? Is there anything published on this, I did a search but couldn't find anything. Is there any post benefit of unchecking MAX if you are not shooting 4k HD 23.98? What exactly is MAX doing?

Dave
 
I know un-checking MAX is supposed to at least help, if not be an outright requirement of, getting decent playback when using proxies in Final Cut.

I don't know, and would be very interested to know definitively (Graeme?) what the image quality difference is.
 
never paid attention to this anyway....did not seem to pre-set anything for me---and i'm ready to be told otherwise.

In fact setting up a camera JUST NOW for a shoot and we left MAX unchecked...just went right to 4k 16:9 and 25fps and redcode 36. NOW, what would checking MAX do for us?
 
MAX mode

MAX mode

"MAX
Leave checked for maximum image quality recording. If shooting at 23.98 fps and 4K HD resolution, you may wish to uncheck the MAX mode box before recording. This lowers the absolute image quality, but permits real time .R3D decoding and scaling to 1920 x 1080 progressive RGB when using commonly
available CPU based post production applications."

Like the Ops Guide says, leave MAX unchecked if you are doing real time CPU based rendering such as 3840 x 2160 RAW to 1080p.

It's got nothing to do with editing proxies or editing on Final Cut Pro.

In our judgement, CPU speeds have increased enough that we have dropped (not) MAX as an option in Build 30 (Mysterium-X builds)
 
Stuart English said:
"MAX
Leave checked for maximum image quality recording. If shooting at 23.98 fps and 4K HD resolution, you may wish to uncheck the MAX mode box before recording. This lowers the absolute image quality, but permits real time .R3D decoding and scaling to 1920 x 1080 progressive RGB when using commonly
available CPU based post production applications."

Like the Ops Guide says, leave MAX unchecked if you are doing real time CPU based rendering such as 3840 x 2160 RAW to 1080p.

It's got nothing to do with editing proxies or editing on Final Cut Pro.

In our judgement, CPU speeds have increased enough that we have dropped (not) MAX as an option in Build 30 (Mysterium-X builds)
Click to expand...

Having Redcode42 on camera affects in the way how to do the editing with proxies in Final Cut Pro?
Now i'm editing using "REDCODE" as Compressor in Quicktime Video Settings inside Sequence Settings on FCP in order to have preview without rendering...
 
keep max on in the future?

keep max on in the future?

So Stuart,

It sounds like there is really no reason to uncheck MAX anymore and that we should just continue to shoot with MAX on unless specifically instructed by a post house?

Dave
 
Insider info alert!

Checking MAX means the camera is encrypting the footage to some degree to prevent people from analyzing the RedCode codec, which some people were doing. That is why playback in realtime becomes an issue, the computer has to decrypt the footage and that extra amount of needed processing power means you don't get realtime playback.

There is no image quality gain/loss if you check/uncheck the MAX setting, despite what Red says publicly. Think about it, the bitrate/resolution is the same regardless and why wouldn't you check a setting that says MAX next to the codec setting. Marketing. To protect their magic pixie JPEG2000.
 
Blaire Johnson said:
Insider info alert!

Checking MAX means the camera is encrypting the footage to some degree to prevent people from analyzing the RedCode codec, which some people were doing. That is why playback in realtime becomes an issue, the computer has to decrypt the footage and that extra amount of needed processing power means you don't get realtime playback.

There is no image quality gain/loss if you check/uncheck the MAX setting, despite what Red says publicly. Think about it, the bitrate/resolution is the same regardless and why wouldn't you check a setting that says MAX next to the codec setting. Marketing. To protect their magic pixie JPEG2000.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying if you're right or wrong because I have no idea. I will say that I thought the Max setting changed the variable bitrate to favor a bit more quality, hence keeping the bitrate closer to it's max at the expense of more decode power needed during playback.
 
Blaire,

That was the explanation I received at a reputable post house here in LA, but I had never had it confirmed or denied whether is true or not. Starting to think that it might be
 
I got my info from other folk, but I'm glad there are people in the post world that are "in the know" as well.
 
Stuart English said:
"MAX
Leave checked for maximum image quality recording. If shooting at 23.98 fps and 4K HD resolution, you may wish to uncheck the MAX mode box before recording. This lowers the absolute image quality, but permits real time .R3D decoding and scaling to 1920 x 1080 progressive RGB when using commonly
available CPU based post production applications."

Like the Ops Guide says, leave MAX unchecked if you are doing real time CPU based rendering such as 3840 x 2160 RAW to 1080p.

It's got nothing to do with editing proxies or editing on Final Cut Pro.

In our judgement, CPU speeds have increased enough that we have dropped (not) MAX as an option in Build 30 (Mysterium-X builds)
Click to expand...

great to heat Stuart. nobody is going to catch you guys anyway... the fans want all the speed they can get :)
 
I'm not saying if you're right or wrong because I have no idea. I will say that I thought the Max setting changed the variable bitrate to favor a bit more quality, hence keeping the bitrate closer to it's max at the expense of more decode power needed during playback.
Click to expand...

That can't be true because realtime playback would only be affected if there was alot of detail/etc in the frame. But the none-realtime playback is a constant thing leaning the problem to be a constant problem, like "decrypting" the codec on every frame.
 
If it was in any way encrypted, why leave it up to the user to turn it off? I would think the number crunching going on is so heavy that CPU cycles wouldn't be wasted on encryption.
 
They are wasted on encryption, which is why realtime playback is difficult when it's checked. And they have eliminated that option on the new builds with the new sensors.

You talk as if Red always does things that make sense...
 
Blaire Johnson said:
They are wasted on encryption, which is why realtime playback is difficult when it's checked. And they have eliminated that option on the new builds with the new sensors.

You talk as if Red always does things that make sense...
Click to expand...

Redcode is encrypted but I never assumed this was chewing up a lot of processing and causing realtime playback issues. I'm still not convinced that the Max setting was a way of turning off this encryption. That would leave Redcode vulnerable, no? Then again, I'm getting into territory that is an unknown to me, so I guess it's kind of pointless to speculate. Perhaps you and others have facts that I am not privy to.
 
XiaoSu Han said:
The big question is:

has anyone ever seen any difference between redcode28 max off and redcode42 max on in real life pictures?
Click to expand...

Or how about just playback using OR not using Redrocket using redcode 28, 36 or 42 with max checked and then same shots with max unchecked ALL within redcine-x or rocketcine-x TO Actually verify if there is a playback issue---seems a simple test to confirm either way this rumor NO??
 
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