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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

different color between Red Alert! and FCP

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King Cheung

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Dear All,
When I use the Red Alert! to view the footage, and I can see very good color, just same as the way I shot. But as soon as I use FCP, even just in Log and Transfer, the color looks bluish and darker, even though I choose As Shot. (In fact, I tried all the Red FCP Plug-in options, like Daylight and etc, and none of them look right.)
Do you have some wrong setting in FCP?
Please advise.
Thanks.
King
 
I don't believe the new color science has been intergrated into the FCP suite. This may account for your problems.
 
Colin Hubick said:
I don't believe the new color science has been intergrated into the FCP suite. This may account for your problems.
Click to expand...

thanks a lot for your quick reply, Colin.
What is new color science? How can I know more about it?
Also, if it is the case, what kind of workflow I should do?
Thanks in advance.
King
 
Colin's correct. The new color science has not been implemented in Quicktime yet. So there will be a noticeable color temperature shift between the RED tools and anything QT based.
 
I see. Thanks, Colin and Ben.
But, then what kind of workflow I should try -- to make a new preset from Red Alert! and import to FCP Log and Transfer Plugin for transferring, or just straight Log and Transfer the footage As Shot, and wait until the release, and then all color looking correct? Any thoughts?
Thanks.
 
You would have to process your footage out of an application that does support the new color science, then bring the footage back into FCP.
 
If I use the build 1720 of redrocketx to convert my files to quicktime will I still get this color shift? Clips processed out(prores444) of rocketcine are lighter than how they are displayed in rocketcine on my external display. Split screen on my external shows this shift. What up? The proxie file in FCP matches the live view from rocketcine on my external display in split screen. All build 21 footage. Logntrasfer matches the proxie and live output from rocketcinex.
 
King Cheung said:
But, then what kind of workflow I should try -- to make a new preset from Red Alert! and import to FCP Log and Transfer Plugin for transferring, or just straight Log and Transfer the footage As Shot, and wait until the release, and then all color looking correct? Any thoughts?
Thanks.
Click to expand...

Depends on your deadline. If you've got time, a new Color plugin is forthcoming in the not too distant future. If you're in a crunch, you can use Clipfinder to render everything out to ProRes or DPX.

Jason - If you're rendering out, you won't get the color shift. Your gamma shift sounds like you're using 10.5, and are running into the dreaded gamma shift issue. 10.6 (Snow Leopard) fixes that with a system-wide gamma.
 
yes,

I'm on 10.5 but if i line up the clips in fcp starting with the proxie then the Lgntrasfer then a renderout of rocketcinex the only way to get the processed clip to match the proxie and the logntransfer in the FCP timeline on my external display from the kona card is to give the processed clip a .3 contarast boost in rocketcine X b4 rendering out. Would the 10.5 to 10.6 thing affect my fcp to kona live feed out? Thanks
 
Having to add that contrast boost definitely sounds like you're running into the 1.8/2.2 gamma shift.

To be honest, I don't know how 10.6 will affect your Kona out.
 
Colin Hubick said:
You would have to process your footage out of an application that does support the new color science, then bring the footage back into FCP.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Colin.
So, is the application you are talking about Red Alert? What other applications can do so?
Thanks.
King
 
Ben Brainerd said:
Depends on your deadline. If you've got time, a new Color plugin is forthcoming in the not too distant future. If you're in a crunch, you can use Clipfinder to render everything out to ProRes or DPX.

Jason - If you're rendering out, you won't get the color shift. Your gamma shift sounds like you're using 10.5, and are running into the dreaded gamma shift issue. 10.6 (Snow Leopard) fixes that with a system-wide gamma.
Click to expand...

I surmise that I just Log and Transfer everything As Shot into FCP, ignoring NCS for now. As soon as QT is upgraded and becomes compatible with NCS, everything I transfered before will just have NCS attributes and look perfect. Any comments, please?
Thanks.
 
I don't think *everything* will just magically take on the NCS. It depends on a number of factors. I'm not entirely sure how L&T handles its proxy, but there's a good chance you won't see any difference in FCP using the same files. Now, once you send it to Color, you'll see a difference. Likewise if you're editing camera proxies, you'll be able to regenerate them and see the difference.
 
King Cheung said:
Thanks, Colin.
So, is the application you are talking about Red Alert? What other applications can do so?
Thanks.
King
Click to expand...

There are a few ways you can go about doing this, the quickest, but also most expensive is using Red Rocket to output your Quicktimes, this would allow you to output a full debayer of your .r3d in short order. Obviously the main drawback is the cost.

The cheaper way to go about this, is to complete your cut as an offline cut, and use a product like Monkey Extract or Clipfinder to conform your cut to the proper color settings. Both Clipfinder and Monkey are front end GUI's for Redline, so either are rendering using the same application (redline)

Redrushes which is also a front-end GUI for Redline is very reliable for me, but will not allow any kind of conform feature.

One of the blessings of Red is all the options you have to deal with post, but unfortunately, it's also one it's curses.

You can also use REDCINE-X but I find it unreliable at this point.

best
Colin
 
Colin Hubick said:
There are a few ways you can go about doing this, the quickest, but also most expensive is using RED Rocket™ to output your Quicktimes, this would allow you to output a full debayer of your .r3d in short order. Obviously the main drawback is the cost.

The cheaper way to go about this, is to complete your cut as an offline cut, and use a product like Monkey Extract or Clipfinder to conform your cut to the proper color settings. Both Clipfinder and Monkey are front end GUI's for Redline, so either are rendering using the same application (redline)

Redrushes which is also a front-end GUI for Redline is very reliable for me, but will not allow any kind of conform feature.

One of the blessings of Red is all the options you have to deal with post, but unfortunately, it's also one it's curses.

You can also use REDCINE-X but I find it unreliable at this point.

best
Colin
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot again, Colin. These are very informative suggestions.

Yet, may I ask you again to direct me to look up the meaning of few terms, please?

What does "debayer" mean? Does it mean the attribute, or something like metadata, of a clip?

Also, what does it mean "front-end GUI?" What does "GUI" stand for? How "front" does it mean by "front-end?"

Thank you very much.

Best,
King
 
GUI stand for Graphical User Interface – the way we interact with computers these days. If it's just a front-end, there's another background program doing the real work (like REDline).
Debayering is the 'development' of data from a Bayer-pattern sensor into RGB images. Check both at wikipedia, it's explained in depth there.
 
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