"EPIC GRIP" Design Consideration..

[Ketch Rossi]

EDIT:


I like to extend my most sincere and honest heart felt APOLOGIES to the RED Team, for voicing my opinion in a manner that could have been read as offensive, towards those that work hard @ RED, I absolutely did not mean to offend nor disrespect the hard work that I know goes on @ RED, and only meant to voice my opinion on the Grip, so again, very sorry if it came out the wrong way, I have edited all my posts below, and revised the way I have expressed my self, and know that I as most of us here, respect immensely your work and what you bring to us with it, so please forgive me, if I have offended any one of you indirectly via my writing, it was genuinely unintentional.





The Red team has been pulling off some incredible stuff, and all the designs are just simply as if from an other world, I felt the handling of the Epic with a large RPP to be very well balanced and a great toll which I'm looking forward to replace my entire Photographic system, from 35, to FF, to MF, and even so heavier then my Phase One system, felt great in my hands.

But I would like to see that the Rubber part of the grip be revised to be more comfortable.

 

[Joe Kleber]

I completely agree. Is it too late to modify the current design? I haven't been lucky enough to hold the new cameras yet (Feb 13th can't come fast enough :smile5, but when it comes to shooting stills, shouldn't a world class DSMC be at least as comfortable in your hands as a world class DSLR?

 

[Ketch Rossi]

No, is not too late, and I like to believe that with Red's attitude it almost never is.. almost :~)

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

No, is not too late, and I like to believe that with Red's attitude it almost never is.. almost :~)

isnt it like, if jarred can hold it with his bear hands, everybody else should be able to do it also?

 

[Ketch Rossi]

I trust the Red Team, and with it Jarred, but not for this I take for granted everything they do, and this case the Grip on the Epic could be improvement.

 

[A. Clint Litton]

Should the Red Team decide not to change anything about the grip, there could be the opportunity for a third-party manufacturer to design some form of ergonomic grip that can ride over the existing Red handles. Of course, it would be great if they did revisit the ergonomics of these two pieces...the last thing you want to do is give someone a reason to pick up a DSLR for stills work instead...

Thanks for bringing up this point, Ketch, and for doing so in such a diplomatic fashion.

Cheers,
Clint

 

[Ketch Rossi]

I simply had never found a reason to complain about anything, and this, I like to note is not a complain, as the grip is very usable and well designed as it is, but I suggest for it to be refined as to have that final touch which will allow for the extended Hand held use, which Pro Photographer often encounter, and also this is not little toy, is a Thank of a machine, designed tuff and it shows, not too heavy, but heavier then any 35mm or MF camera out there, especially so when accompany by the RPP's which I intend to, off course not an issue when used with a mount, and here I'm very impressed about RED's shoulder mount designs, and especially so with the Shoulder Mount piece with front and rear fittings, to improve stability, which once out will put to shame any and every Shoulder Mount option currently available...

 

[Jannard]

Ketch... I know you have good intentions. The grip as it is now is the smallest it can possibly be given the battery and electronics inside. To soften the handle any more (I actually love the way it feels) would mean that it would have to grow larger. We tried several prototypes like this and the general consensus was that the larger/rounder grip did not work for as many people.

Jim

 

[paulherrin]

wasn't there some talk about a dumb grip? at the very least 3rd parties can come in...

 

[Jannard]

wasn't there some talk about a dumb grip? at the very least 3rd parties can come in...

The system is set up so anyone can build and add a "dumb grip" to the side of a brain. We expect that many will do this.

Jim

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

The grip as it is now is the smallest it can possibly be given the battery and electronics inside. To soften the handle any more (I actually love the way it feels) would mean that it would have to grow larger.

It doesn't have to be any smaller, it can even grow slightly larger. The rubber softness as on Red One handles is fine. If it's too soft it won't sit firmly in wrist. I vote for micro skin-like texture instead of large sharp notches. Better friction while allowing ergonomics.

Handle's shape and angle are the main issues, IMO.

We tried several prototypes like this and the general consensus was that the larger/rounder grip did not work for as many people.

Were they shooting hand held motion imagery all day with it ?

Did you try prototypes with micro-textured rubber instead of sharp notches ?

If handle was fixed and perpendicular to camera axis as on the pics the organic shape might not have worked with the lack of micro texture and because one has to grab the handle more firmly holding it in that angle to compensate for the lack of friction. While current design provides more fingers-to-thumb-base pressure and friction compared to same smooth surface in more oval organic shape, the need for that pressure can be reduced by more optimal handle angle and friction even improved with rubber texture.

The system is set up so anyone can build and add a "dumb grip" to the side of a brain.

I would rather buy a great realtime-multiple-controls rotational ergonomic handle from you guys, not having to sacrifice functionality by getting a dumb grip. Considering what you have done so far, this seems like a piece of cake.

Maybe adding two versions for both preferences ?

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Ketch... I know you have good intentions. The grip as it is now is the smallest it can possibly be given the battery and electronics inside. To soften the handle any more (I actually love the way it feels) would mean that it would have to grow larger. We tried several prototypes like this and the general consensus was that the larger/rounder grip did not work for as many people.

Jim

Thanks for understanding my good intentions Jim, as they are.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

edit.
Pics removed.

 

[Ralph B.]

I don't shoot for 12 hours at a time so perhaps I just don't have the right perspective but I haven't grabbed a camera that I couldn't grab adequately. I would tend to give the benefit of the doubt to RED team since they are actually handled the prototypes. Perhaps there are some unique qualities about handling a camera of that size and weight that actually does make the current grip work better. Just a counter point.

To those who have held the camera prototypes, how accessible are the controls that you would access from the thumb and the wheel you would control with the index finger? That wheel would in some cases focus or adjust aperture and I was wondering how that actually felt on the thumb. I'm far more interested in how the REDMOTE and the handle controls work than the grip itself.

 

[Jeff Coatney]

Having handled the prototype, I can attest that it feels much better than it looks like it would. I was surprised, the angular look and the size of the grip led me to think it might be uncomfortable, but I found it to be very ergonomic.

 

[Ralph B.]

Thanks Jeff. What did you think of the placement of the controls as they were implemented?

 

[Ketch Rossi]

The placement of the controls, both on the grip itself and on the REDMOTE, are very ergonomically well designed and easy accessed while holding the camera, and provide quick access to the various functions, many of which done with the same hand that holds up the system by the Grip.