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2/3 Scarlet and lenses

spaulgal

spaulgal

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This has probably been talked about to death....

I've owed a 5DM2 for about a year, and, in anticipation of getting a RED cam, I have built up a arsenal of nice 35mm lenses. I have some really nice Canon L lenses -- and several amazing Leica R primes.

These lenses are awesome on the 5D, but will they be on the 2/3 Scarlet?
The Scarlet interchangeable 2/3 has been my target camera, but how much more sense does it make getting the FF because of my lens situation?

Many thanks

Steve
 
Well, if my math serves me... your FF35 lenses will have a 4.25x magnification factor on the 2/3" scarlet.

So your 20mm will have the FOV of a 85mm. Not much in the way of wide shots with FF35 glass on a 2/3" camera.
 
David Mullen ASC said:
One could perhaps buy the shorter Mini-Primes or 16mm optics to get the wide-angle shots since a 20mm still camera lens isn't short enough for those.
Click to expand...

This is exactly the route I was planning to go. However, I wonder how different the look of the image will change, switching between my Nikon lenses and the RED mini primes. If I do decide to go with just Nikon lenses I will need to get a wide-angle prime for sure... can someone tell me what focal length is needed to equal, say 20mm, on a Scarlet? 6mm? 8mm?
 
I looked at my math and I was a bit off.

2/3" - S35 - FF35 (ish)
6mm - 15mm - 20mm
12mm - 30mm - 40mm
20mm - 50mm - 66mm

and so on and so on
 
We actually had this very discussion just the other day in this thread.

My numbers differ from J. Eric Camp's above. And it's probably to do with what sizes we're associating with the 2/3" Scarlet sensor. We don't have final specs yet. I am going with 3072 pixels wide @ 3um/pixel for 9.216mm width.

Buying a few of the mini primes to supplement those wider focal lengths would be alright. But how often do you really want to change lens mounts and confirm your back focus? On set or in the field? Also, a mini prime is $950 and there's a possible discount for the complete set. What about S35 Scarlet? You wouldn't need to supplement mini primes for the wide angles, just use the lenses you already have. There is still a crop from FF35, but it's larger than S35 or APS-C. Actually very similar to APS-H, or the size of the sensor in the 1Ds, just not as tall since M-X is 2:1.

If you were supplementing Nikon lenses, you would really need the 6mm and 8mm for sure. The 16mm may be a good lens to have too, but may not be necessary if you already have the Nikkor 14mm f2.8. The Nikon mount for Scarlet will be an additional $500, so that's half a lens right there and there's also talk of a small discount if you buy the complete set of mini-primes, which are $4750 without discount.

If you multiply a focal length by 3.89, it will tell you what that focal length's FF35 equivalent is when used on the 2/3" Scarlet. Or divide to go the other way. A factor of 2.68 will work between 2/3" and S35 and a factor of 2.39 will work between 2/3" and APS-C / RED One 4K.

So
6mm x 3.89 = 23.34 or you could say the FF35 equivalent of that 6mm lens on the 2/3" Scarlet would be a 24mm. And if you want the same FOV as a 50mm lens on your FF35 5D, you would need 50mm / 3.89 = 12.85mm. Which would probably be closest to the 16mm mini prime unless you happen to have a 12mm or 14mm PL or Nikon mount lens to use.

length :: FF35 eq. (x3.89)
_6mm ~ 24mm
_8mm ~ 31mm
16mm ~ 62mm
25mm ~ 97mm
50mm ~ 195mm

length :: S35 eq. (x2.68)
_6mm ~ 16mm
_8mm ~ 21mm
16mm ~ 43mm
25mm ~ 67mm
50mm ~ 134mm
 
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Jeff Kilgroe said:
Buying a few of the mini primes to supplement those wider focal lengths would be alright. But how often do you really want to change lens mounts and confirm your back focus? On set or in the field? Also, a mini prime is $950 and there's a possible discount for the complete set.
Click to expand...

So true...

My original plan was to purchase a single mini-prime with the camera and also a Nikon mount so I could compare the two and decide from there. But if RED does decide to offer a discount for the complete set then I think I'll probably just give in and get the full set. Then just use the Nikon mount for specialty filming like macro and telephoto stuff.

Hmmm, too many possibilities! lol!
 
The FF scarlet is $4250 more. Maybe someone in my shoes (with several 35mm) lenses should be focused on the FF brain?

I know there are some that prefer the 2/3 -- What are the other advantages/disadvantages of the FF vs. 2/3?

maybe only because of price?

Thanks
 
spaulgal said:
The FF scarlet is $4250 more. Maybe someone in my shoes (with several 35mm) lenses should be focused on the FF brain?

I know there are some that prefer the 2/3 -- What are the other advantages/disadvantages of the FF vs. 2/3?

maybe only because of price?

Thanks
Click to expand...

You might want to consider the S35 model if you want to use your still lenses. Roughly equivalent to APS-C or DX format still cameras for sensor sizes in common shooting formats.

2/3" with format appropriate lenses is a better choice for solo shooters, event videography, and run & gun documentary style productions as it has greater depth of field and is easier to focus quickly by eye than the larger formats. Lenses, especially wide range zooms, are faster and more compact than for larger formats too.
Another reason for 2/3" is to get high frame rates at modest cost. For either 35mm format, you have to move to Epic for high continous frame rates at full resolution.
 
i've been mulling over what to do about lenses etc. and it looks like the mini primes are going to be the smartest route(imho). like kilgore said above, worrying about back focus in a run and gun type of shoot could be a real problem. the only problem that really concerns me is having an ultrawide lens to shoot with which is a necessity for me, i haven't really figured out the solution for that one . . .
 
The 6.5mm mini-prime will have about 85 degree AOV at 16:9 and 90 degree at 1.89:1 cinema format. Is that wide enough?
 
Yeah, how wide do you really want? That 6mm is equivalent to using a 16mm on Super35 or a 14mm on full frame. I could see wanting 5mm or even a 4mm if you were shooting under-water or in more specialized circumstances. There are some B4 mount lenses that can accomplish this. The Zeiss Digiprimes go as wide as 3.9mm, but now we're talking about lenses designed for 3CCD and they will require the B4 mount with optical correction.
 
David Mullen ASC said:
There are also 16mm optics; Birns & Sawyer, for example, lists these 16mm lenses in their rental catalog:
1.9mm Century Fish-Eye
3.5mm Century Fish-Eye
4mm Optex
4mm Elite
5.9mm Angenieux
6mm Century
Click to expand...

David,

I've been thinking about this for a while. But I will be buying a 2/3'' Scarlet. I have broadcast lenses but do you think it would be a wise investment to purchase S16mm Glass for narrative projects, and if so what would you recommend?
 
If you are getting the 2/3" Scarlet, I think the best lenses for your money will probably be the Red Mini-Primes, augmented by S16 lenses at either end, assuming you can make them all the same mount for convenience sake.

But if you already own a bunch of expensive B4 HD optics, then perhaps the smart thing would be to get a B4-to-Mini-Prime (whatever the name of the mount will be called) adaptor that compensates for the fact that B4 lenses are designed to focus through a prism block (apparently it is not a difficult thing to correct for), and then use B4 lenses on the camera.
 
David Rasberry said:
The 6.5mm mini-prime will have about 85 degree AOV at 16:9 and 90 degree at 1.89:1 cinema format. Is that wide enough?
Click to expand...

i'm thinking the 6.5 should just about do it. i have been shooting with a 15mm nikkor rectilinear fisheye, i imagine the 6.5mm won't quite get there but it should be close enough. thanks for the numbers!
 
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I have an old 5mm f1.5 Elgeet Navitar c-mount 16mm lens I am looking forward to playing with. I hope the mini-Red mount and flange depth is designed in such a way that a simple screw on flange adapter will work for c-mount lenses, similar to the c to bayo mount adapter used on some Bolex cameras. This would be preferred to a c-mount as it would allow more convenient lens changes for sure. Don't know if it will be possible and so far Red is mum on the subject.
 
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