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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Absolute first time with Red on my Mac. Need help!

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CaseydeFremery

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I was meeting with my DP today for the first time since he got a Red camera. We spent about an hour talking about it and recent events as there's a short I'm wanting to do next month. He said he had to convert to FCP 7 to get his computer to use the Red clips, though I've known other filmmakers who've used the Red since before FCP 7 came out.

So right now, I have an Apple Mac OS X with version 10.4.11, with the Intel chip in it.

I have FCP 6.0.6

He made a few clips for me to import into my computer as quicktime files to see how they'd work. When I imported them, in the Preview section, the playback didn't work too well. It stuttered, stopped and started. When I dropped it into the timeline it would always require rendering, same with any type of color correction adjustment.

This is my first post here, so I'm hoping it won't be the millionth topic like this but I haven't been able to find a similar topic about this from the searches
 
Without more details about these clips your guy gave you, it's hard to make a definitive statement about the problems. Likewise your computer. What model Mac? What speed processor? How much RAM? Why in the name of Jebus are you still running 10.4? All questions whose answers will get you better help hereabouts.

Did he give you *JUST* Quicktimes? If so, he probably already transcoded them to ProRes and you computer is choking on the high resolution. If he gave you the R3Ds and Proxies, well, editing with proxies is a much discussed issue here. Some folks swear by it, others swear at it.
 
For the main details, my computer specs:

It's 10.4.11
2.16 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
1 GB (Memory) MHz DDR2 SDRAM

Final Cut Studio 2

He gave me a Quicktime file, and I think he did process it through Pro Res first. I'm still running 10.4 because I got my computer in mid 2007, when this model of Mac was first released. I don't have the money to get a new computer as it is.
 
Have you confirmed that your sequence settings match the media you're trying to edit?
 
CaseydeFremery said:
For the main details, my computer specs:

It's 10.4.11
2.16 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
1 GB (Memory) MHz DDR2 SDRAM

Final Cut Studio 2

He gave me a Quicktime file, and I think he did process it through Pro Res first. I'm still running 10.4 because I got my computer in mid 2007, when this model of Mac was first released. I don't have the money to get a new computer as it is.
Click to expand...

I have to be honest, with those specs you're working on a MacBook (Not Pro). And with only 1GB of RAM, you're going to have serious problems working with RED footage, at least the RAW files.

You should be able to work with ProRes footage, although if you work with it at full resolution, you're going to run into the issues you're having now. A better bet would be to work with 1/2-rez proxies (If you're shooting 2K) or 1/4-rez proxies (If you're shooting 4K) for editing purposes, then do your final online on a more capable computer. Double check your sequence settings like Roger said, but you're going to find that you probably just don't have enough horsepower to handle 2K+ files.

As far as your DP goes, he *does not* need to upgrade to FCP7 to work with RED. There are some very established workflows for working with RED footage in FCP6. The only major improvement in FCP7 is the ability to work with 4K in Color.
 
Sounds to me like he gave you either 2k or 4k ProRes files. . .


Here's the deal with ProRes. . . there were 2 'flavors' of the ProRes Codec available for FCP 6.0.6, but FCP 7 has 5 'flavors'.


Here's an overview of the ProRes Codecs;
http://documentation.apple.com/en/f...ws/index.html#chapter=10&section=2&tasks=true

IF he gave you ANY ProRes Codec other than ProRes 422 or ProRes 422(HQ), you won't be able to play them back in 6.0.6. If he re-transcodes them as ProRes 422, then you should be fine.

NOW, on to your specs. . . you will NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER be able to playback 2k and 4k files on that hardware in Real time. . you'll always drop frames.

Rather than use 2k files for an online edit, consider doing a 1080 or SD offline edit. . . you can always relink to HD/2k files with products like Clipfinder later. If you opt for an SD offline edit, your render times will be super-short, and your filesizes will be super small.

Feel free to PM me if you have any more questions.
 
Are you trying to play the footage from a USB drive? I doubt a USB 2.0 connection can play Pro res 1080 for very long without skipping.
 
What I'll do is send this topic link to him as I believe he's a member of this site as well, and would know more about what type of files he got to me. I know that I can upgrade my computer to 4 gigs of RAm to help and as for sequence settings, I don't know for sure. I know the "Would you like to change the sequence settings to match the clip?" box never came up, it just went straight to the timeline and had the render bar up. Putting on Unlimited RT just went to skipping frames.

And the clips were on my External Hard Drive, which plugged into a USB drive, for one of the posters here
 
Also, if I up my RAM from 1 gig to 4 gigs, would that help at all to be able to view the higher quality footage? Or would I still need to transcode them at a lower rate?
 
I wouldn't mind upgrading, though I got the Academic version of FCP, which saved me about 700 dollars when I got it. But a condition to it is that you can't upgrade it
 
With the academic version of FCP you're kinda boned as far as upgrades go.

Upgrading your RAM will help, but at best you're going to move up to "barely capable". A Macbook's never going to have the chops to online RED footage reliably. My opinion (And it's just that, opinion) is that you should probably boost your RAM on principle, but you're still better off working with SD or 720 prores proxies for editing, then doing your final online on a more capable computer.
 
As a note, we shot the first part of the movie yesterday after deciding to use the Red for the shoot (it was between that or using a Panasonic HVX) and the overall experience shooting on the Red was really good. We're still trying to figure out the right way to be transcode it, use proxies, etc. to get it onto my computer. I figured we'd probably use the 1k/1080 proxies to edit as mentioned by some here. My DP knows he can do it, we just don't know the exact procedure
 
Good to hear. Sometimes you've just got to jump in and *do* it, then figure stuff out later. Not necessarily the best way to go about it on a deadlined professional gig, but a personal project tends to have a bit more leeway.

Assuming you're shooting 4K, I would say your best bet for quick dailies/editing proxies is 1/4 rez proxies. (1k/1024) 1080p (Which is more like 2K) is probably a bit much for your macbook, and is honestly more resolution than you need for editing on the small screen. To be honest, you could probably get away with 1/8 rez proxies (512xWhatever) for editing, assuming you've got reasonable documentation on what shots are good as far as focus goes.

The other benefit of working 1/8 rez is that they will render quicker than anything else, so you'll be able to start working sooner.
 
Also, we shot at 3k for most of the production, minus a few shots we did at 4k. I'm gonna see if I can track down the extra gigs to add to the internal memory to go from 1 to 4 gigs for processing
 
Start with the Basics

Start with the Basics

hopefully some help:

The more RAM the better! Has nothing to do with seeing the image, but helps with playback of large (high data rate files).

Try to use at least Firewire 800 drives for the project.

I'm just finishing a RED feature, here's what I did:

Imported the H proxies from the RED directories right into FCP. H proxies are 2K frame size, so they look pretty good and your system (with 4gigs RAM) should be fine. Play with the settings in FCP sequence RT tab on Left,
set to "Unlimited RT" then try using "Medium" on Playback Video Quality. You should still see an Orange Render line, but be able to playback without Rendering.
The proxies are a bit tough on your processor, but I found it to be fine. transcoding all of the R3D to ProRes first will be easier on your system but takes time to perform, etc. This can be done in FCP6 using a 1920x1080 setting.

This is all you need to know to start cutting.

From there, start to do a lot of research on finishing, meaning how to get the R3D (not the Proxies or ProRes) into Color from FCP to grade the R3D media, then it gets rendered to ProRes from Color for your final master. You can color correct right in FCP, but you will not be correcting the R3D, you will be correcting the proxy or ProRes in your sequence, not recommended but can be OK for some projects depending on quality expectations. The H Proxies or ProRes look pretty good as is, but don't have as much info in the file as the R3D.

In my case I am finishing on a different system (Smoke and DaVinci) so I used XMLs to get the edits rebuilt on the other systems. I found Clipfinder to be a great way to re-point my XML sequence to the R3D instead of the Proxies so that the sequence in Smoke uses the R3D and we go from there.

Research A LOT for RED workflow, it's worth it in the end!!

Paul Buhl.
 
So I can use the proxies for the main editing but use programs like Clipfinder later on to replace the proxies with the full rez R3D files? I'm heading over later to drop off my external hard drive to the DP so it can be imported, I just don't know the exact procedure to get it substituted as I wouldn't want the proxies to be the final delivery quality
 
That depends on *which* proxies you're talking about.

If you're referring to the _F/_H/Etc proxies that come off the camera, no. You're not going to be able to make those work well on a MacBook.

If you're referring to ProRes proxies, transcoded with RedRushes or Clipfinder, yes, you can use those for editing, then go back to the Camera Proxies/R3Ds for final conform/grading. But you are *NOT* going to want to do that on your MacBook, if for no other reason than the fact that Color's interface (Assuming you're using it) will be ridiculously tiny on that screen.

As far as your editing proxies go, assuming you're working with ProRes, I would suggest using Clipfinder and rendering everything out at the 1K+ setting. That will take your mixed resolutions (3K & 4K) and make everything a nice 1024xSomething file that you should be able to edit no problems on your machine.
 
As a note, I'm not editing on a Macbook, I'm editing on an iMac. May not make much of a difference in the tech department but I wanted to make that clearer. The one I got is similar to this one, only difference is that mine's a 2.16 Ghz comp, not 2.66:

http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB324LL/A?mco=MTY3ODQ5OTY

I picked up the footage today and so far it seems to be okay. I don't know if my DP put it through Pro Res first or not, though I've been importing each clip individually with the F/H/M/P proxies. The option to turn on Unlimited RT doesn't seem to show up in the menu though, which is a bit odd. Also, the playback looks a bit different when it's paused versus when it's playing
 
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