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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Timecode explained

Jamie Havill

Jamie Havill

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Hi,

Sorry if this is a rediculously noob question, but it's been bugging me for a while. I've only ever shot little short films so far that havn't really required the use of timecode for syncing. I'd like to use it on my next short though, as we are recording the picture and audio separately (sound recordist refuses to record to the RED One and wants to use his own recorder).

I just wondered if someone could explain to me, briefly, how timecode works and what all the jargon means when I'm reading other threads related to TC!

Thanks in advance :redface:
 
Without getting highly technical... simply put.

Time Code "jammimg" is a means of syncing AUDIO and PICTURE in post. Especially when DOUBLE SYSTEM recording... i.e. NOT plugging a mic into the camera to record sound.

If he insists on this, that is fine, its actually standard and accepted practice. But DO insist he also hooks up a small SCRATCH mic to the camera to record sound as well. THis makes syncing the sound easier
for shots where TC sync is not desirable or possible.

Because Time Code sync , is not always convenient for say a long steadi cam or handheld shot as it requires a LEMO cable be connected and "tethered" between the camera and the sound recorder... for this reason, its great to have a "scratch" mic.

and of course a SLATE! The slate and CLAPPER... are what have been used forever to sync sound to film prior to Time Code sync.

There are many great sound articles on here if you use SEARCH.

cheers
 
Hi Jamie,

The best way to work for you will consist in using a TCGENERETOR BOX like "Deneke SB-T"
The sound guy must know this thing.

you need 2 boxes, one for the camera and 1 for the sound ( configur it in free run )

and this will make the same tc for both camera and sound
But, better having a clap on the set cose like that, if something appened, you still have the clap to synch.... :)

hope i answered your question...
I usualy use this system when i need to synch sound.
let me know if you have some questions

Jordane
 
HI thought this was a good thread to add my question to being time code explained.

My question is when using a 744t and red with Denecke slate, what advantage do you get when jamming with/to the Red. Why can't I run time code independently like film?
I ask because of having to spend time re-syncing after battery changes and or possibly running cable.

thanks
 
Hi,
you can do it in 3 ways:
1) Sync RED with the recorder each time the batteries on the RED are changed
2) Ask your AC to hot swap the batteries on RED, so RED does not go out and keep on sync
3) hire-buy lockit box and hang it on the RED

basically the 3rd option is most used one, the 1st and 2nd are used on small/cheaper productions
 
The TC dilemma is IMHO a bit 'over thought'. The simplest and most exact way to sync picture and sound (double system) is to use a simple clapper board, a slate. That's essentially all you need. By far the majority of 'Hollywood' movies are done like that. This method always works.
The original idea using TC was to get away with the slate. Aaton as well as Arri developed in-camera (film cameras) methods. Arri's method was way too buggy and never much used, Aaton's implementation works, it's used - if at all - more in Europe though.
Using TC slated (Denecke and Ambient are the main manufacturers today) lets one choose to use either the (sound of the) clap or the numbers to line up picture and sound.
RED's implementation of TC is, well, not so good, almost useless without using additional equipment plus it forgets settings and TC with every camera shut-off which one has to do very frequently to prevent a melt-down.

There's nothing wrong using classic film-style double system on a RED shoot. Plain clapperboard works fine. TC slate works fine too, but isn't really necessary.
 
Thanks for both for your responses and info.

But I need to go into the post meeting knowing why someone would want to jam to the red.

Is it easier to sync sound matching up time code on red files and 744 files in red software as to matching up 744 files and numbers on screen from slate?

I'm just not sure why they would want to sync to red if it isn't needed.

Thanks!
 
If production plans to not use a slate at all - because of whatever reasons, scaring talent (?) etc, then using TC makes sense. No slate, no clap, still TC reference. What actually are you going to shoot?
 
I'm set to shoot a feature. I know production is providing a digital slate so I was confused. I've been told that I'm going to have to run cable to the camera to keep TC with the red. I wasn't sure why so I thought I'd ask here first to get a sense of things.
I really didn't want to have to spend time running cable because I'm sure I won't have utility on hand, so thanks a bunch for the info. Makes sense to me now. They probably don't have everything quite planned yet and may have been taking directions from post. I'm sure it will be clear at the pre-production meeting.
Thanks again
 
Ok, production provides a TC slate, just use it. Somebody else above in this thread mentions something like running a cable to the camera....there is no cable to run, period.
If the camera sees the slate at the beginning of each take (+ the clap) that's enough for a solid sync. Because RED's TC implementation is a bit retarded (excuse the word) one has to - if one wants to jam the camera - repeat this exercise every time the camera is turned off and on. This is a total nuisance and really slows down production. Now RED's solution, instead of fixing the camera (hello....)is to ask that one attaches another gimmick (lockit boxes etc) to make it work. Now film cameras (99% at least) do not have internal TC. It only really makes some sense to jam (video cameras) when there's lots of stop and go and no time or no intention to use a slate at all.
If it's a feature, meaning there's a script and actually something like a shooting plan, it is unnecessary.
If they think they can't live without external sync, they'll have to pay for it via renting more equipment, loosing valuable shooting time and having to deal with very common TC sync errors....like, battery down in the lockit, the camera guy not telling that he shut down the camera, etc etc...
Enjoy the show, don't forget the most important thing is good sound ;-)
 
The Main reason post guys would want TC sync is because Smart Post Guys can Auto-sync with TC JAM/. I can do it, and I always want to JAM camera to the recorder (Camera Takes the Mixer's TC) for this reason, whether post has the Tools or not (which some are are Free).

I usually suggest Production rents a Clock it, but I NEVER keep it on the Camera. When I need to change a battery and a Hotswap is not used, Ive got the Battery in my left hand and the Clockit in my Right hand or I teach the 2nd Assistant why to do this. The Camera only needs to take see the TC for 1 second until a power down.
 
Well, Alex, you don't know, but there's peoples who know what they're doing, but there are not too many of those around ;-)
You are a bit of an exception!
But, please, tell me more about how you 'auto-sync'. You throw stuff unto the timeline and magic happens?
 
There was a $400 program called Sync and Link, I never used it.

The one Ive used for the past two years is a Free Program called Sequence Liner. I can sync the Dailies in less than a minute, once you figure it out its really sweet. The Moroccan action film with no squibs was the last thing I synced, and I didnt have any tools at that point so I went investigating until I found an answer.

You basically import a Reel and a the corresponding sound files into FCP, and then create an XML file from the Bin List. Import XML into SeqLine, and its gives you back an XML to import into FCP. It gives you one huge Timeline from the first clips TC to the last. From here you export new synced Quicktimes for Offline editorial (w/ correct TC). SeqLine also will re-link audio inside a Cut sequence, I'm so far from Post Production now I haven't had a chance to thoroughly test the ONLINE abilities.

How's everything! Karl? Are you in the US?
 
Alex, I've just downloaded this script/app - it's from Andreas Kiel, I've always used his BWF2XML for certain things. That's really interesting - if it works ;-)

I'm right now in Berlin, but we're flying into Vancouver coming Thursday - we'll see how that goes ;-)
 
Thats great! shoot me an email if you have trouble getting the XML into his script, it took me a few minutes to figure out how Andreas' App likes how the XML file was created since its coming from a Bin instead of a Timeline.

So you select Target sequence(to set resolution,Frame rate, codec) and and also the Bin with Audio and Video Clips inside and export XML,

Ive successfully created dvd dailies of an entire day using this script, I would just delete the space between the shots or export individually so TC is preserved for Offline or window burn.
 
Time Code

Time Code

Time Code is a clock data that will give each recorded frame an exact location or address. In video, it is recorded parallel to the picture information. Your camera can generate an internal timecode and so is the sound recorder. Though time code is frame accurate, not all equipments' internal time code generator, like with your camera and your sound recorder, run at the same speed. That is why you need to jam synced your camera, sound recorder and your digital slate (if you're using one). By doing this, you are creating a singular timecode for the entire recording for all those devices, thus, making your picture and your sound information to sync up.

You can use your Sound recorder's timecode to jam your camera and your digital slate or an external TC gen with a stable oscillator for a much more frame accuracy.

But if I were to ask, it is much better if he can record sound to the camera that will serve as a reference aside from jam syncing.
:smile::thumbsup: cheers!!!
 
As some have said if the camera sees the TC on a smart slate that is what you would have for sync on film. The case for timecode on camera becomes more important as multiple cameras are used. It is much easier to edit clips from multiple cameras if you can look for a corresponding TC number anywhere on a clip. The Syncing of dallies is great with TC on picture at the head of a take, but TC really makes it simple for the rest of the editing process. So it becomes as important to have the cameras in sync with each other as it is sync'ed with audio.
 
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The point of timecode jam sync is so that each frame of picture has the same time code address as the corresponding frame of sound. To sync in post only requires lining up the same frame numbers on the sound track and picture timelines.
Jam sync synchronizes the camera and sound recorder clocks to the same frame number reference before shooting begins. The clocks are set to free run continuously regardless of whether camera or sound are actually being recorded, so theoretically they are always matching frame addresses when recording is taking place. No two clocks are exactly perfect though, so there will be some amount of drift over time, but it is still easier to deal with in post than a non-synchronized shoot.

Bottom line, use the clapper too.
 
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