How could they tell you installed a Birger?

[ericyoung]

"...No reasonable person involved with this (and there are many) has ever expected RED to warrant Birger mount damage or any other DAMAGE caused by third party products, improper mount removal or installation, or whatever..."

Obviously, there's no case here - but that doesn't stop RED being wary of the time and effort it takes to turn unreasonable people away. And Birger also isn't responsible for user error, but may be looked at to pay for repairs which they would not be able to afford without specific insurance. Because Birger went ahead with offering /i cable connection, they opened themselves to responsibility for electrical damage. I'm just trying to throw out suggestions that might shift the barriers a little.

 

[Michael Hastings]

"...No reasonable person involved with this (and there are many) has ever expected RED to warrant Birger mount damage or any other DAMAGE caused by third party products, improper mount removal or installation, or whatever..."

Obviously, there's no case here - but that doesn't stop RED being wary of the time and effort it takes to turn unreasonable people away...... I'm just trying to throw out suggestions that might shift the barriers a little.

I know you are trying to help, eric. (so am I)

I am pretty familiar with the whole dealing with customers problem - reasonable and unreasonable. Every couple weeks I have to answer questions about some AquaVideo housing on ebay that we sold 20 years ago - first from the guy about to sell it, then the 14 people looking at it and finally the one that eventually buys it for $47. And imagine selling a product like mine where EVERY person using it is literally in a life threatening situation and on a life support breathing system ...and where the first thing the lawyer for the dead guy is going to say is ... "he was distracted by fiddling with the buttons on that AquaVideo thingy..."

Check this out:
http://cgi.ebay.com/AquaVideo-Underwater-Video-Camcorder-Housing-Scuba_W0QQitemZ290388526170

Made that in 1989 - 7 years before we had a website - but my url is on there now. (don't buy it by the way - there weren't any "digital camcorders" then and it certainly doesn't fit anything remotely current - unless you want a nice waterproof tube, but I'll sell you that cheaper.:smiley

But every pro manufacturer - Sony, Arri, Panasonic, JVC, Canon, Ikegami, etc. has to deal with this stuff. And it is why the camera has the RED name on the side instead of whatever contract manufacturer in Singapore actually makes it, and why the price we paid is presumably several times what RED pays the singapore manufacturer. It's just part of the game and cost of doing business.

And it isn't that hard to put a disclaimer/FAQ on your website. And make a simple script for how your employees should respond to inquiries regarding it. I could do both in a few hours.

 

[Thomas Wright]

It had nothing to do with the mount, fella had a hire job and one of the sockets was loose and he didn't have time to send it back to Red so he opened her up.

... and so then perhaps they don't want to boast about their Birger mount, even if it were successful, because it seems to me that the impression people have here is that the warranty for the whole camera is voided by the attachment of the mount so if summat goes wrong elsewhere they can- in their opinion, I'm not sure cos we've chopped and changed from PL to Nikon often and I don't see how that should void the warranty blah blah whatever- put the old mount on and send the camera in for repairs. QED

Logically if the CF Module goes down one would expect it's got nothing to do with the mount as said earlier but likewise it's Red's call as said earlier too. It makes me sad for the indy film maker cos they're all just going to go use the 7D. Pain in the behind it is cos then they're wanting follow focus and matte box and on board monitor and you end up with something that looks like it was built by a Womble with tourettes

 

[Rob Ruffo]

Yeah, 8 pages and no problems reported. hmmm. Perhaps they don't want to advertise their folly.

I do know a fella who took the screws out to tighten a connector from inside but didn't take note of which ones went where and, how do you say, hosed one of the boards.

But this is his own installation error. It's like saying you know a guy who dropped the camera while installing his Birger - it has nothing to do with the (I assume - because Red is a reasonable company) real dangers posed by thw mount itself and its own design flaws.

 

[Rob Ruffo]

It had nothing to do with the mount, fella had a hire job and one of the sockets was loose and he didn't have time to send it back to Red so he opened her up.

... and so then perhaps they don't want to boast about their Birger mount, even if it were successful, because it seems to me that the impression people have here is that the warranty for the whole camera is voided by the attachment of the mount so if summat goes wrong elsewhere they can- in their opinion, I'm not sure cos we've chopped and changed from PL to Nikon often and I don't see how that should void the warranty blah blah whatever- put the old mount on and send the camera in for repairs. QED

Logically if the CF Module goes down one would expect it's got nothing to do with the mount as said earlier but likewise it's Red's call as said earlier too. It makes me sad for the indy film maker cos they're all just going to go use the 7D. Pain in the behind it is cos then they're wanting follow focus and matte box and on board monitor and you end up with something that looks like it was built by a Womble with tourettes

Using the 7D is sad indeed.

 

[Erik Widding]

I'm sure many here could chime in with specifics about how the Birger reduced the functionality or damaged their Red- which is why I started this post, in part - I wanted to hear about the dangers from users, and evaluate them. (...) I invite all Birger users to chime with their horror stories. It will help others, including me, from ending up with their fate, and evaluate real risks with better knowledge.

Please, if anyone has had damage to their camera from mounting a Birger, post it here. We need to decide what to do in terms of equipment strategy.

Rob, it's been awhile since you first asked this... so it's probably time for me to answer your question. Nobody has posted any horror stories about damage to their RED cameras caused by Birger lens mounts because there just aren't any incidents where this has happened. If there were, I would know about it.

 

[Rob Ruffo]

Rob, it's been awhile since you first asked this... so it's probably time for me to answer your question. Nobody has posted any horror stories about damage to their RED cameras caused by Birger lens mounts because there just aren't any incidents where this has happened. If there were, I would know about it.

I'll admit, this is starting to sound like a real possibility. I also searched the forums, looking for examples of Birger problems, and all I found was incidents of certain off-brand lenses not working, or Inclino transmitters not working from more than X number of meters, etc. In short, only problems with performance limitations, (even these quite limited in severity/importance) not a single one that had the Birger damaging a Red.

But this does not add up. Does not make any sense to me. According to some posts here, wouldn't that make their warranty removal associated with your product completly illegal? As mentionned, I do not believe in the reality of laws' or lawyers' ability to protect anyone from anything, but I do believe in character. Red is law-abiding, and good intentionned. This is their character, it would seem to me.

As such, the only possibility I can make sense of is that they made a mistake here? Perhaps an idiot user (or even a competitor of yours, posing as a user) misled them about the dangers of Birger? They are busy with so many new products, perhaps they did not, understandably, have time to verify the veracity of these dangers.

As a technical person, I have trouble with situations that do not add up logically.

This does not add up, and really should be clarified.

 

[Martin Weiss]

or even a competitor of yours, posing as a user

Which other company makes a smart Canon mount for the RED One?

 

[Rob Ruffo]

Which other company makes a smart Canon mount for the RED One?

None so far, but other people are working on some, including Wicked Circuits. I am NOT accusing anyone, just speculating at possibilities to make sense of the illogical.

 

[Michael Hastings]

None so far, but other people are working on some, including Wicked Circuits. I am NOT accusing anyone, just speculating at possibilities to make sense of the illogical.

Here's a good question:

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=40854