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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

are you scared of scarlet?

A

Aaron Porta

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i'm a 3D artist, i've worked around in film and TV over the years and have just realized something pretty special is about to happen.

http://red.cachefly.net/N30/Nov30th.jpg

http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/red-scarlet-and-bomb-evf-surprise-hands-on/


i've just seen this (i'm sure you all already know) and i was totally blown away.

i'm trying to understand what this is going to do to our industry? i for one am going to buy a scarlet. how many other 3D artists and compers out there are going to say, "i spend all day fixing other peoples shots i know this half of the prosess intimately. these cameras are so cheep now i can learn this filming thing... i know how to compose shots, i know what 'looks' people like, i know a good edit when i see one... i've been scrutinizing other people shots all day every day for years, how hard can it be to shoot something for my self?'

if 3d is at one end and DOP is at the other, it feels like some DOPs have been makeing there way twards 3d (like i know of directors who started doing ther own edits in FCP, then once they learn that they start doing some basic comping. (they're kinda a couple steps away from learning 3d, which was a little scary until now...)

it seems the same thing's been happening from the other end, 3d artists learn some comping, edit... (and the missing link) 3K 120FPS .RAW for an affordable price.

and that's just looking at 3D... what about all those assistants and runners and tapes crew, designers, etc. not to mention an ordinary person who has nothing to do with the industry (i'm not even filming things yet and that kinda worrys me)

if pretty much anyone can buy one of these, is there even going to be cases of 'john smith' going out there and shooting his kids birthday party at 3K? haha

i know the technology isn't what makes an awesome film/TVC. there's alot more to your jobs then just the camera that you use. just saying there can be alot more of you out there because of scarlet? are you happy about this? or is it a worry? (i realize that there is going to be alot more crap out there as well)

sorry for the rant... i'm a bit excited about this right now. not trying to piss anyone off, this is totally lighthearted. just putting it out there to spark some conversation (i'm sure you guys are already talking about this?)

cheers
aaron
 
aaron_briggs said:
if pretty much anyone can buy one of these, is there even going to be cases of 'john smith' going out there and shooting his kids birthday party at 3K? haha
Click to expand...

Well, take a look at what's happened to digital photography - now talented people who don't have much money have access to cheap, high quality cameras, can do photo manipulation

Then there's the masses who can take 10 to 15 megapixel images and then just slap them straight on Facebook (which is about 0.25 megapixel) or take the memory card and print little 6x4s at department stores...

In the end, I think that any motivated person with a bit of talent who is willing to learn about filmmaking will be able to make great films, while the masses will get to make slightly nicer looking home videos for Youtube.
 
With the access to high end equipment more affordable to anyone you will see and dramatic increase in content shot with very high quality images but if anything it will make the differences between those really talented and those who are not even more obvious.

Prices for some equipment have been outrageously expensive for many years. Manufacturers have had a wake-up call after RED's massive success has eaten or will eat into their market share so rapidly.
 
Mitchell Standard

Mitchell Standard

Anyone for the last 50 years could get a Mitchell Standard or ARRI IIC and make a movie on 5302, and some did that kind of thing. Scarlet may make the costs somewhat lower, and thats what by "freeish" DI/NLE/MIX/FILMOUT software is about, but its been possable to make a 35mm movie for under several thousand for all of my life. Scarlet will let people without talent make something at 3K rather than 1920x1080, but films get the distribution they deserve so unless they put the effort into the project that is needed they are no closer than they would have been, they just have a less heavy camera to pack around.

For myself, a lighter weight camera is a big plus because anyone who has used a Mitchell Standard can tell you it is hard to use without help, with Scarlet you can shoot without a crew, just you and the subject, and that can allow you to do films in more scenic places.

Today anyone can get a 35mm movie camera for less than the price of a Scarlet and make a "real" movie, and 35mm movie camera prices are going to fall like a rock, because the all digital workflow is faster, easer, and lower cost, and that lets you put more into what is in front of the camera, rather than LAB fees.
 
Mohammed El Sharqawy said:
Not everybody can deal with raw images from camera,,
it takes a long time to learn how to extract good image out of a camera raw..
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Good job RAW has been around in stills for a long time. :thumbsup:

I absolutely agree with all of the sentiments expressed in this thread so far. But I definitely err on the side that thinks it will make the industry more competitive and push up standards through added accessibility and competition and a higher "maximum image quality threshold" from a digital camera.
 
Scarlet certanly looks like something you find some where in district 9. When I get my missing peace I take my spaceship to a hole other level!!
 
RAW or RGB

RAW or RGB

Not everybody can deal with raw images from camera.
Click to expand...

Well for those that can't that is why there is an RGB record mode ( and for other reasons too of course )
 
I don't believe I'll be losing work to a Scarlet user anytime soon :-)
 
The amount of talent will still be the same regardless BUT there will be more people than ever willing to work for 1/4 day rate. And we all know how much producers value quality and talent over low cost. ;)
All it means that only strong will survive.
It happened in photography with RAW emergence, it happened in video with DV emergence and it will happen in cinematography with Scarlet emergence.

Also, having an Epic set up as a freelancer will not be much of an asset in producer's eyes when there are cameras that cost 1/4 of Epic that produce comparable images.
Hence, I'm questioning it as an investment. (NOT as a camera) It will still be an asset to me. :D
 
I still see people using RAW to describe unproccesed images and uncompressed images. I also see people using RAW to describe images that are both processed from the sensor and stored with compression. I guess RAW doesn't mean what it used to, if processed and compressed images qualify as RAW.
 
Why be scared of something that gives you the freedom and control to shoot your own projects on your own terms. Sure a lot of people who would never be able to get their projects off the ground in the past now can, but that just means you have to push yourself harder if you want your stuff to get seen.

The worst that can happen is that the bar for indi projects is raised a bit, something that should probably happen anyways. If it scares you that you might have to work a bit harder then.......

If it scares you that an "amateur" might take your job as a 3D artist because this camera will somehow pave the way for them, then I hate to tell you but anyone with a high speed connection and a torrent program already has all the tools they need.
 
Michael Pierro said:
Why be scared of something that gives you the freedom and control to shoot your own projects on your own terms. Sure a lot of people who would never be able to get their projects off the ground in the past now can, but that just means you have to push yourself harder if you want your stuff to get seen.
Click to expand...

It's pretty cool if you are 20 and just starting.

Not so cool if you spent the last 20 years working your way up in order to get behind a decent camera.

Hence the difference in POVs.

"Scared" is too strong of a word. It's more of an excitement mixed with the fear of unknown. It's scareciting. ;)

It is what it is. Progress is inevitable and good.
 
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RAW or RGB

RAW or RGB

I still see people using RAW to describe unproccesed images and uncompressed images. I also see people using RAW to describe images that are both processed from the sensor and stored with compression. I guess RAW doesn't mean what it used to, if processed and compressed images qualify as RAW.
Click to expand...

Our definition of RAW includes sensor data that is compressed, but excludes the possibility that it has been processed.

Once converted to RGB it is not RAW, by definition it will be recorded as RGB or sub-sampled to YCbCr 4:2:2 or 4:2:0.

Are RAW images difficult to deal with in camera, or in post?
Click to expand...

No RAW is not difficult to work with in either situation. But it adds tremendous flexibility that YCbCr and even RGB don't have.
 
Good gear in the hands of talented people = great pictures (usually but not always).
Good gear in the hands of mediocre people = well, great looking mediocre pictures?
But at least we can all have a good go at realising our dreams. All of us.
 
We had in the middle and the end of the nineties a similar situation. miniDV was introduced an so nearly broadcast standard was avaible for a lot people. And it changed the industrie. First, small production companies started to use these new Cameras for stuff for TV-Work and then the Video-journalism was born. The Video-Journalist is shooting Doc and is doing everything on it's own. Broadcast Station use Video journalists more and more for local news gathering and so some broadcast-DOPs became a little problem. More and more was produced on miniDV to save money, and two or three years ago some broadcasted material looked absolutly terrible. Colors were bleeding out, the camera was shaking like hell and the sound was realy bad. So many people started to do camerawork. Equal if they have talent or not or even "anti-talent". But after some time a sorting out started. So the quality increased (the technical quality) again and many people went back into thier old jobs. I think nothing like this will happen, at least not in that quantity. Because it makes "movie quality" affordable, but thats doesn't matter as much as when profesionell qualitiy became affordable. What you discribe happens since years. Many of my friends work as 3D-Artist or Comper but do their own camera work too. But most of them earn the vast bulk of their money still as 3D-Artist or Comper because their is another thing netx to talent: experience. Only a good camera is nothing without talent and expereience in the job of an DOP. Their is so much more to know about ligthing, grip, ... So the scarlet don't scares me.
 
aaron_briggs said:
i'm trying to understand what this is going to do to our industry? i for one am going to buy a scarlet. how many other 3D artists and compers out there are going to say, "i spend all day fixing other peoples shots i know this half of the prosess intimately. these cameras are so cheep now i can learn this filming thing... i know how to compose shots, i know what 'looks' people like, i know a good edit when i see one... i've been scrutinizing other people shots all day every day for years, how hard can it be to shoot something for my self?'
Click to expand...

I'm kinda in the same situation as you - i'm a 3D artist / compositor most of my time nowadays and i will buy a Scarlet as soon as i can.

But i've also been shooting stuff longer than i've done 3D, since the late 80's, so i have some experience of both.

I think the skills complement each other very nicely. Learning to light and frame shots in real life first made it quite a bit easier for me to make my 3D stuff look somewhat decent early on. I'm sure it works the other way around as well - if you can do good quality 3D, your learning curve in real life shooting should be pretty straightforward. All the same principles apply - and you get radiosity for free ;-)

If you've done a lot of compositing, you probably already know pretty well what makes a good plate, both artistically and technically. And as a compositor, i'd assume you have no fear for digging into the computer stuff, you'll applaud the option to work with raw footage, the control you get.

Even though i still shoot quite a lot of "the regular stuff", i've personally found my niche in VFX heavy projects - clients tend to hire me as the DOP or VFX sup for greenscreen shoots, especially if there's going to be 3D integrated with the footage - and i often end up doing at least some of the post for those projects as well. That might be a niche worth considering for you too.
 
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