Werner Herzog and RED

[JohnF]

You can't compare for example use of a film camera with any digital camera because there are totally different acquisition formats, workflows, areas or fields..whatever...

Yes one can compare film with digital cameras. They are just cameras plain and simple - an instrument for recording the world around us. There is far more to a camera than just the method of recording focussed light.

The ergonomics and operational design of a number of digital cameras is IMO often hopeless and worthy of significant criticism. It's like the lessons learnt over the 100years of building cameras has been forgotten in the transition to the digital age. Often features that one, as a photographer, needs immediately to hand are either buried in a menu or in a bizarrely located switch. Eating valuable time that can lead to one missing a shot.

Ever missed a shot because of poor design not for being a poor photographer or film maker? It is the most frustrating of events especially when you know that it was the design of the device that let you down not just a case of "a bad workman blames his tools". (the lack of a standby on many cameras is a source of much puzzlement to me - such an obvious requirement not being met)

Being a photographer is often about capturing moments and by definition moments are short lived. A camera needs the ability to be fast to use and that means good well thought out design.

This criticism applies to the lowest to the highest end cameras.

Red have been an inspiration in the transition to the digital age but their cameras are not without flaws. But thanks to the company's ethos they listen to feedback which leads to the improvement of their cameras and product range. Shouting down or dismissing such feedback, especially from such an experienced film maker, as we've seen on this thread only acts to impede the flow of information that leads to the very improvement we all, no doubt, want.

All the best

JohnF

 

[Dylan Macleod CSC]

Herzog is a genius.
I blame the assistant.
I make sure the camera never reboots when I am working with a director who is new to RED.
The re-boot was operator error. Get a hot swap! You're working with Werner Herzog dammit! ;-)

 

[Jeremy Neish]

Never heard of him or any of his films.

Guess I'm more of a computer geek than film geek. And I think I'm perfectly happy with that knowledge. And, yeah maybe he should just buy a hot swap battery kit, problem solved.

 

[Peter Strietmann]

Some of the hardest times in my life have come when I find that someone I have held in high regard is only human and capable of making mistakes. It is certainly no crime but the long term ramifications can be devastating.

 

[rod bradley]

Well put tilHavis.

Werner Herzog is obviously intense. He's obvious a bit of an over the top guy. After all he made Aguirre & Fritzcaraldo. And managed to work with Klaus Kinski, who probably made Werner seem almost low key. He's obviously a genius filmmaker. And every genius can be an idiot or misinformed. And which of us has not mispoken or exaggerated out of frustration. And some of us are probably more sensitive to his frustration than we need be. His job is to make films. Like any craftsman are artist he wants tools that are rock solid.

Anyway, I often see a certain erosion of civility here among perfectly honorable people -- keeping passion civil is a tricky business it seems. Maybe the bootup time for civility can be improved.


As was rightly pointed out JJ takes all this and makes it better.

 

[JonathanF]

but I'm mostly drunk when writing to the forum

This explains an awful lot. Maybe I will find a use for the ignore feature.

 

[Dean Bull]

Did anyone else read the whole interview? He has some really cool insights as a director.

 

[D Fuller]

Just another example of an old school film maker who is afraid of change...
the camera takes 90 seconds... not 4 1/2 min...

Im wondering if he had a bad DIT onset which made his experience less than perfect.

These guys who know nothing about digital and are unwilling to learn, simply fear it. they feel as if their lively hood is getting pushed aside and they cant keep up with the new tech..

Gee, in 90 seconds Tyson Gay could be almost a kilometer away. And how many of you have hit the power button when you intended to hit the record button for a take? And what did you say then? I couldn't re-print what I said.

Being frustrated by one of the weak points of the camera doesn't make one afraid of technology, it constitutes legitimate product feedback. If there was nothing wrong with the RED ONE, Jim & Company wouldn't be working so hard on the Epic.

I love the RED ONE too. It's my baby, but it's got a few warts.

 

[Jay A. Kelley]

I love RED, but it has issues.. I CHOOSE to work around these for a number of reasons, but also wait for improvements from Epic and Scarlet.

As Jim as said, the next two cameras cannot follow the path of RED, the must come out of the gate solid, and ready. (This will take some time for those of you hoping to see them real soon).

Other professionals may choose NOT to work around RED'S limitations. I completely respect that choice, and I would certainly not insult or put down ANY professional because they made this choice.

I do not know this director, but I can tell he has quite a history and is a respected artist. He has made his opinions, and choices known.. I completely respect that.

Digital may be our future, but it's NOT our present. At present Digital and Film must share the stage. It will be this way for a few years yet.

Please, let's keep our debate to the equipment, and not insult or put down those that have different viewpoints, regardless of how strong they may be.

I would also like to add that the director's comments were in an interview, NOT a post for this forum.. So it's not like he came here and insulted the camera, he was somewhere else sharing his opinion.

That's just fine.

Some of you may think you are protecting RED and Jim.. You're not. Jim's a pro, and he knows as well as anyone that not everybody will want to use his camera. He's fine with that, he'll just focus on those that do, or improve his cameras in the hopes of winning more people over.

enough said by me

Jay

 

[Justin McAleece]

My Son, My Son

My Son, My Son

I know the guys who worked on that movie and they were legit guys but there were some issues with the bad battery contacts even though they swapped out some battery plates (which we have probably all encountered). That was the source of many of the issues and I actually had to personally deal with some of the issues on that exact camera on the next movie we worked on with it. We had a very distinguished DP on that one and he didn't think much of the RED in a lot of cases either. He was an operator on a lot of the big ones and he wanted Panavision and nothing but. He would probably not choose RED any time soon but by the end of production we had fixed a lot of the issues to his liking and the system overall was pretty decent for him. I was not at the premiere for "My Son" but I know it was not an entirely lovable movie and the conditions and situations found while shooting were eccentric to say the least. I respect Herzog incredibly and was surprised to hear his comments because the Premiere at Cannes was while we were shooting another film and the Producer was away and no one ever mentioned anything about how he was RED bashing. I know he is an excitable guy so maybe the boot time ruined it for him and the interviewer just caught him on a bad day.

 

[I Bloom]

Often times while I'm waiting for a Red camera to boot my bandit heart cries out with distant longing "Die Schnee... die schnee."

If you got that you are a true Herzog fan.

IBloom

 

[Rick Darge]

Sanjin 4 life

I cracked up so hard when you said you are mostly drunk when posting to the forums. :beer:

 

[Peter Matthes]

These shirts are available to all Red users.

 

[Jannard]

RED is an alternative to film... some of the best in the industry think it is better than an alternative. But RED is not perfect (yet). The R1 does some things that could bug a film shooter. Startup time is either an issue or not depending on your attitude. We have fixed that going forward. You have to keep exposure "between the goal posts". The posts are getting wider as we move forward. There are some quirks... no question. But there are also some advantages... like instant feedback (and striking of sets), no hair in the gate, media that fits in your hat and no grain. My bet is that we can fix our issues faster than film cameras can fix theirs...

Jim

 

[Tom Lowe]

Wow some people here disrespecting Werner Herzog because he offered an opinion on R1? What an embarrassment. Instead of lashing out, try reading what he's saying with a clear mind.

The man is a fucking legend.

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Just another example of an old school film maker who is afraid of change...
the camera takes 90 seconds... not 4 1/2 min...

Im wondering if he had a bad DIT onset which made his experience less than perfect.

These guys who know nothing about digital and are unwilling to learn, simply fear it. they feel as if their lively hood is getting pushed aside and they cant keep up with the new tech..

I would say that's a gross mischaracterization of W. Hertzog. IMO he's constantly evolving and pushing cinema. If he doesn't like the RED he doesn't like the REDOne. Maybe he'll like Epic more. People have preferences. The world revolves.

I can't in a million years see Hertzog's livelihood get pushed aside by digital. If he wanted to shoot a film on Polaroid he could probably persuade them to restart the factory.

Isn't it more true that many here on these forums are far more vulnerable to negative RED press than Hertzog ever will be to digital cinema?

 

[Jannard]

Being disrespectful to the person is different than discussing the merits of the opinion. We have room for the latter and not the former.

Jim

 

[Eric Ulbrich]

Im with Tom. The man is a legened...

 

[Martin Weiss]

The one point I take issue with is Herzog (whom I have lots of respect for) complaining about the boot-up time. How I read this statement is "we have chosen the wrong tool for the project". When I do run-and-gun and don't have unlimited battery supply, I chose a different camera than R1. As Sanjin pointed out in a more sober state, there are double-plate battery options (which would also have resolved the battery-connection problem.)

As to mechanics; I learned my trade amongst 16mm and 35mm cameras (loved the beasty Superamerica best), and I do not understand how the R1 can be perceived as having flimsy mechanics. After all, there hardly are any mechanics - it is mostly electronics. The PL mount is lovable for its' field adjustable settings.

One may complain about the connectors, but there are industry-proven workarounds for that, which should be standard issue at any rental house.