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5k S35 - Will S35 lenses work?

Ryan E. Walters

Ryan E. Walters

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So I've been reading through the posts, using the search, and I can't seem to find the answer to this one:

If the Epic-X is released with a 5k Sensor that is S35- then S35 lenses should cover it- correct? After all, it is my understanding that S35 is a format / standard. Just like S16 is a format / standard. So, it would seem that at 5k S35, there is just more resolution given to that format. Or am I missing something here ...
 
RED 5K image area is a touch larger than standard Super-35, so some lenses will cover it and some will not.
 
Thanks for that quick reply.
 
I'm hoping that the jump from 4.5k to 5k will not be that big of a deal- so far the lenses I have been using have covered the 4.5k fine. So it looks like I'll have to wait and try it out with Epic to know for sure.
 
5K requires a 31mm image circle for coverage. It is wider than S35, but the overall image circle needed is not much bigger since the 5K sensor is 2:1 (not as tall as a 3-perf S35 frame).

FF35 = 36mm x 24mm (44mm image circle)

S35 full aperture = 24.89mm x 18.66mm (31.11mm image circle)
S35 1.85:1 = 24.89mm x 13.45mm (28.30mm image circle)
35mm Academy = 21.95 x 16mm (27.17mm image circle)

R1 full sensor = 24.41mm x 13.72mm (28mm image circle)
R1 4.5K = 24.2mm x 10.37mm (26.33mm image circle)
R1 4K = 22.12mm x 12.44mm (25.38mm image circle)

M-X full sensor = 30mm x 15mm (33.55mm image circle)
M-X 5K = 27.65mm x 13.83mm (30.92mm image circle)

Mysterium-X 5K should require an image circle that is 4.59mm larger in diameter than RED One 4.5K. However, these M-X numbers are based on the assumption that 5K will be 5120x2560 with the same photosite size as the Mysterium sensor (5.4um or 0.0054mm).
 
Brilliant- that is just the info I was looking for. Thanks Jeff. :)
 
is it possible to make a movie with only one lens with RED ONE?

my final delivery will be 2k digital. i'm planing to buy a 50mm master prime and use lens doubling technique with RED. basically shooting 4.5,4k,3k,2k with the same lens. will this translate to normal 100mm in 2k (when shooting with 50mm in 4k).
 
C.A.Alan said:
is it possible to make a movie with only one lens with RED ONE?

my final delivery will be 2k digital. i'm planing to buy a 50mm master prime and use lens doubling technique with RED. basically shooting 4.5,4k,3k,2k with the same lens. will this translate to normal 100mm in 2k (when shooting with 50mm in 4k).
Click to expand...

Is it possible? Yes.

Is it preferred / the best? Depends on the story, and the look you are going after. On the Red One, all you are doing is cropping down from the 4k image. So while your field of view may be close to a 100mm lens at 2k, the lens itself does not have the same characteristics as a 100mm lens (Depth of Field).
 
Personally, I would have to have good reason to shoot a whole film with only one lens- and it would have to be story driven, rather then a financial one.
 
C.A.Alan said:
is it possible to make a movie with only one lens with RED ONE?

my final delivery will be 2k digital. i'm planing to buy a 50mm master prime and use lens doubling technique with RED. basically shooting 4.5,4k,3k,2k with the same lens. will this translate to normal 100mm in 2k (when shooting with 50mm in 4k).
Click to expand...

I can't tell you how much I believe this is a bad idea. Not the shooting a movie on a single focal length idea (Ozu did it), but the idea of pulling different shot sizes merely by cropping the lens image and recorded resolution. For one thing, you end up with a project of multiple resolutions that has to all be converted to one final resolution, plus you have all the inconsistency issues in visible resolution and noise even if you finish in 2K.

Shooting in 4K RAW and downsampling to 2K RGB is going to look better than shooting in 2K RAW and converting to 2K RGB. So those 4K shots, even though later reduced to 2K, are going to be cleaner and sharper than the 2K shots.

You're better off just getting three prime lenses or one single zoom and figuring out how to shoot the whole movie at 4K just using those.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
M-X full sensor = 30mm x 15mm (33.55mm image circle)
M-X 5K = 27.65mm x 13.83mm (30.92mm image circle)

Mysterium-X 5K should require an image circle that is 4.59mm larger in diameter than RED One 4.5K. However, these M-X numbers are based on the assumption that 5K will be 5120x2560 with the same photosite size as the Mysterium sensor (5.4um or 0.0054mm).
Click to expand...

What? I thought M-X 5k is supposed to be damn near 30mm wide, what makes you think it'll only be 27.65mm??
 
Ryan E. Walters said:
So I've been reading through the posts, using the search, and I can't seem to find the answer to this one:

If the Epic-X is released with a 5k Sensor that is S35- then S35 lenses should cover it- correct? After all, it is my understanding that S35 is a format / standard. Just like S16 is a format / standard. So, it would seem that at 5k S35, there is just more resolution given to that format. Or am I missing something here ...
Click to expand...

Depending on lens, no. The 5k is being referred to as "x35" since it's noticeably larger than s35. That was a main selling point of the RPPs is that you wouldnt have to crop the output of the M-X sensor like you would if you were using a set of Zeiss lenses or whatnot. The M-X sensor is exactly half way between s35 and ff35.
 
Shawn Nelson said:
What? I thought M-X 5k is supposed to be damn near 30mm wide, what makes you think it'll only be 27.65mm??
Click to expand...

The sensor is 30mmx15mm. It is said to have the same size photosites as the current Mysterium sensor (5.4um or 0.0054mm). So that means that 5K 2:1, which would be 5120x2560, is 27.65mm wide. The extra 2.35mm width is extra non-recorded pixels. Think look-around area. Just like the RED One's 4520x2540 sensor...
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
The sensor is 30mmx15mm. It is said to have the same size photosites as the current Mysterium sensor (5.4um or 0.0054mm). So that means that 5K 2:1, which would be 5120x2560, is 27.65mm wide. The extra 2.35mm width is extra non-recorded pixels. Think look-around area. Just like the RED One's 4520x2540 sensor...
Click to expand...

Hmm, then like your original post, you'd only need a coverage of <31mm circle to get 5k 2:1. So why has Red said you need 33mm coverage? That was one of their big points about the RPPs I thought. Confused.

Though some "35mm" lenses are only 28mm coverage it seems.
 
C.A.Alan said:
i'm planing to buy a 50mm master prime and use lens doubling technique with RED.
Click to expand...

I think a 50mm Master Prime is about the same price as a whole set of RPPs? You would certainly be better off with the RPPs.
 
Shawn Nelson said:
Hmm, then like your original post, you'd only need a coverage of <31mm circle to get 5k 2:1. So why has Red said you need 33mm coverage? That was one of their big points about the RPPs I thought. Confused.
Click to expand...

Just reporting what I know based on what has been said... All things subject to change and whatnot. It takes almost a 34mm image circle to cover the 30x15 Mysterium-X sensor. We don't know if the full sensor area is recordable or not. We don't have all the details yet. I hate doing the "Jim said" thing, but looking back at the old RPP and 5K threads, he was always saying a 31 or 32 mm image circle was needed for 5K. Like in the "Lens Shopping" thread: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?p=398068

5K should be 5120x2560. So if that is the full sensor, then that means photosites would be 5.86um or 0.00586mm. And that also affords no "look around" area when recording 5K. It has been said before, on more than one occasion, that the M-X photosites are the same size as the current Mysterium sensor [5.4um]. That means that 5K is actually 27.65mm wide, leaving somewhere around 436 pixels in width for look-around area, or just 216 on each side when shooting 5K.
 
Ryan E. Walters said:
Personally, I would have to have good reason to shoot a whole film with only one lens- and it would have to be story driven, rather then a financial one.
Click to expand...

movie is strongly story driven with 2 star casts. planing to just rent 50mm master prime or buy one 50mm RPP or 50mm russian lens.

can the inconsistency issues in visible resolution and noise be corrected by color correction in fcp using plug in like colorista?

won't be rushing the post production because going to use 13" mac book pro for the whole project.
 
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