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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Peoples Health Care Bill

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Stephen Williams said:
No exactly, you have to have private insurance & pay a premium by law in Switzerland, no choice.
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Not quite... If you can not pay your insurance... The governement take in charge partial or the total amount. Every one has an insurance.

That's called solidarity.

The companies are private but they are rooled by law on the minimul health care/charge they can ask for. If you want special health care like a private room it's your choice to pay more for it.

Have a nice Christmas Stephen!

Pat
 
Patrick Tresch said:
Not quite... If you can not pay your insurance... The governement take in charge partial or the total amount. Every one has an insurance.

Have a nice Christmas Stephen!

Pat
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Hi Pat,

What is interesting that the insurance can't decline a pay out because you did not pay the premium!

Happy Christmas to you Pat

Stephen
 
jimhare said:
My guess is the architects of the bill started with something like that and quickly discovered the execution wasn't quite so simple.

I see a lot of criticism of government, and that's a good thing; one of the sacred principles of democracy.

But I would remind everyone that the decision to mount a fundamental change is a mammoth task, riddled with complexity and compromise.

The fact that former presidents just preserved the flawed status quo just meant they weren't up to the task.

If you haven't seen the beautifully produced drama of John Adams, I highly recommend watching it. Change is not easy, and comes at a cost.

But hey, I'm in Australia. We've always had socialized health care and I wouldn't trade it for anything!:hurray:
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I agree, those who could afford to run million dollar national commercials and buy influence in congress would make it close to impossible to do something really significant to improve a system for the masses, regardless of the elected officials original intentions.

I feel this was before the maturing of the internet. The landscape is changing. I feel facebook and twitter have the registered voters per district to make a difference. The 4 year unchecked power plans, could be more of a 4 year probation period- stricktly based on the officials performance
 
Andrew Walker said:
You guys want the government involved in your health care? If they run that the same way they have been running our debit or the country as a whole then we would be in a whole lot of trouble. I'm part of a union and I have health care through them. So if we could have something like that for everyone that would make much more sense to me. I don't want to be paying for someone else's health care when they just sit on their ass and do nothing. How is that fair to the people that work their asses off.

People right now already take advantage of the free health care we have in this country. Like we the people having to pay for a drug dealing, low life, piece of trash couples to get In Vetro because they want to have a baby. Mind you these are people that don't work and don't pay taxes. So why should I pay for something like this. I know this is going on because my Mom works at a hospital and has to deal with the scum of the earth that come in and get free health care right now. Just because people don't have health care doesn't mean they won't be cared for.

I just think this is a very very bad idea what they are trying to pass. When the people running the country don't want to have the same health care as what they are trying to pass that should raise a couple red flags.
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Sure, some non working individuals will benefit from a single payer plan. As you mentioned, they currently benefit now.

The big difference would come to those working families that have to deal with co-pays, deductables, non-covered life saving procedures, people who cannot afford their current health insurance premiums to go up- which they will.

They would all recieve better health care, at a reduced cost.
 
I really don´t understand why some americans are against Health Care.
In Europe we ALL get FREE Health Care.
Thats the ONLY thing we really think it´s a MUST.
We all need to support another and provide free health care to ALL should be non negotiable.
And we are not communists...
Money should never be the question.
I cannot understand a person that gets sick should be ALSO gets broke!?!
 
Luis Ismael said:
And we are not communists...
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For those who don't live in the US:

According to the conservatives in our nation a .9% tax increase on those who make $250k a year is considered "Communism, theft, socialism, class warfare, sedition (which doesn't even make sense) and treason".

Just some perspective on why we can't fix the problem. The problem costs money and a significant portion of our country views any government spending except for military spending as the end of freedom and democracy. According to these same individuals you all hate your healthcare. You'll be allowed to die on the street if you are an undesirable and you have no freedom.

My experience with friends who live abroad and those who have used foreign medical services have been quite different. I even just met someone who's mom flys across the pacific back to her home country for medical treatment instead of dealing with our medical system.

It's so ridiculous here that even those ON GOVERNMENT HEALTHCARE are fighting against offering a government healthcare option! I got into a fight with a woman who was saying she didn't want to be on Medicare but she had no choice and that she was strongly against any government run healthcare option.

Everybody gets sick. Everybody should be able to get healthcare.
 
After spending 15 years in Europe, 20 years in Canada and 11 years in US I must say that no system is perfect or even good. All are acceptable but with plenty of room for improvement.

As usual, take the best of all 3 systems and use the parts that everybody likes and don’t implement parts that everybody complains about.
Canadian system is free so it is abused. European system is corrupted and US system has inherent conflict of interest.

Well, don’t make it completely free, make it full proof against corruption and make sure that there is no conflict of interest in the system. Easy to say........

Reminds me the features wish list for the RED camera:-)
 
Andrew Walker said:
You guys want the government involved in your health care? If they run that the same way they have been running our debit or the country as a whole then we would be in a whole lot of trouble. I'm part of a union and I have health care through them. So if we could have something like that for everyone that would make much more sense to me. I don't want to be paying for someone else's health care when they just sit on their ass and do nothing. How is that fair to the people that work their asses off.

People right now already take advantage of the free health care we have in this country. Like we the people having to pay for a drug dealing, low life, piece of trash couples to get In Vetro because they want to have a baby. Mind you these are people that don't work and don't pay taxes. So why should I pay for something like this. I know this is going on because my Mom works at a hospital and has to deal with the scum of the earth that come in and get free health care right now. Just because people don't have health care doesn't mean they won't be cared for.

I just think this is a very very bad idea what they are trying to pass. When the people running the country don't want to have the same health care as what they are trying to pass that should raise a couple red flags.
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First off.. Its un-Constitutional, what they are trying to do.. We are NOT other countries.. We are NOT europe and we are NOT canada.. I dont know why people are trying to make us that.. If they want big daddy taking care of there every needs,, they need to move to those countries and have them wipe their ass every BM they have.

This BS that is happening right now in the US is a mirror image of other fallen nations.. they become tyrannical, and next thing you know our internet is blocked, our guns our gone, we are being fed horse shit daily,
and believe it or not eugenics plays a big role in all of this.

People tell me time and time again (come on your crazy, that wont happen)
well its happend many many times in history.. Why are are so special?
because we have the constitution.. but These MOFOS are trying to tear that up right in front of us.

does anyone know a nice little country that I can move to where government wont dip into my wallet and take out half my earnings?
Im sick of paying for everyone else and their problems.
 
also.. we will be paying out of the ass for this thing.. 4 years will go by and NOOOO benefits to anyone will occur. after those four years the program will start.. the 4 years we pay for now will pay for 4 years. after that point this debacle will become yet another monetary black hole, which will drive us FURTHER into debt that we will NEVER be able to pay off..
 
Zakaree Sandberg said:
they dont have to get broke.. they can step up to the plate, get a job, and pay their own insurance. NOT be forced to buy insurance "or else".
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Having a job or paying through your nose to get insured doesn't even guarantee you the coverage in the US. What's been going on in the US is obscene. US doesn't have the most expensive health care in the world because it's the best. It's most expensive because a LOT of people make a LOT of profit from other people's illness and misfortune.

It's pretty incredible to pretend that our health care system's problems have nothing to do with the terms of our health care being dictated by for profit companies who have a duty to maximize profits for their shareholders by withholding necessary medical treatment from your family. 



Watching neo-cons dictate health care policy is like watching a retarded six year old bump into the same wall, time and time again. We have seen what works, and what doesn't. Every other western nation has reduced the cost of their health care by kicking insurance companies to the curb. Pretending otherwise is just putting ideology ahead of pragmatism.

Other countries have it wired - read some of the testimonials in this thread. How many people would say that in the US?
 
Roberto Lequeux said:
He actually voted "Nay". He laughed at himself, along with the rest of the senate, then changed his vote. He must be nearing a mental breakdown from working so hard to get it passed.
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Or maybe he's thinking about when he runs for re-election in his home state he can unequivocally state "I voted against it before I voted for it!":confused5:
 
I do wish they would stop calling this bill a health care bill. It is a "health repair" bill. Many Americans live ignorant lifestyles and then when it catches up to them they want the doctor to "make it well."

What we need is a true health care bill. One that uses the tax code to tax-out-of-existence things like high fructose corn syrup, pthalates, white flour, refined sugar and salt... and a myriad of other things.

As devil's advocate to my own argument, if we did so the country would be in deep do-do. Why? Because as someone once said, there are more people making a living off of cancer than are dying from it. And if we truly were serious about true health care which would only require a small portion of the 870 odd billion to a trillion .2 we would invest more in fast tracking research. We are on the brink of growing new body parts within our own body using our own latent stem cells in various locations around the body. This is where our tax dollars should be going!

Congress doesn't want to stop dying. Congress just wants to get re-elected... (and gain more control over the electorate by making us believe we are dependent on them for our well being... after all, they passed that health care thing for us!?)
 
Look, our health care is effed. But FORCING americans to buy the health care you tell them to buy is straight up un american. if u wanna reform health care allow more insurance companys and regulate what they csn and cant do. Obviously no dropping insurrance for dumb pre existing conditions. But telling me i have to buy your health care or else pay fines and possibly go to prison if i dont??? Come on..
Next thing you know ill be forced to vacinate myself with their vaccine or else ill be sent to jail or not allowed to buy food. Its a slippery slope folks
 
You are forced to pay for your car insurance. You are forced to pay for police and fire. You are forced to pay for wars.

Who do you think pays for people who don't have health insurance but fall ill under the present system? Well, you do. Wouldn't you rather have them pay for it themselves?
 
Zakaree Sandberg said:
Look, our health care is effed. But FORCING americans to buy the health care you tell them to buy is straight up un american. if u wanna reform health care allow more insurance companys and regulate what they csn and cant do. Obviously no dropping insurrance for dumb pre existing conditions. But telling me i have to buy your health care or else pay fines and possibly go to prison if i dont??? Come on..
Next thing you know ill be forced to vacinate myself with their vaccine or else ill be sent to jail or not allowed to buy food. Its a slippery slope folks
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The "forced to buy insurance", outside of the cost of the whole damn thing is what galls me the most as well. Reminds me of when my state (tried) to force me to wear a seat belt. Luckily my car has an armrest in the center of the front seat that is perfect for looping the seat belt around so it looks like I'm wearing it. I know... I know... it would be about as easy to hook the seatbelt up, but there are some things one just does on principle.
 
Milan Spasic said:
You are forced to pay for your car insurance. You are forced to pay for police and fire. You are forced to pay for wars.

Who do you think pays for people who don't have health insurance but fall ill under the present system? Well, you do. Wouldn't you rather have them pay for it themselves?
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Milan, you are forced to pay for car insurance because not having it could cost others in an accident. Your taxes pay for police and fire as a means of protecting you. People who have health insurance actually overpay in order to pay for the indigent. All this health care bill is doing is shifting that payment from the caddilac plans so that everyone, through their taxes, subsidize those who do not have insurance. Forcing me to buy insurance that covers conventional medicine but does not benefit any who choose to live and heal using alternative means? That is coercion.
 
Elsie N said:
The "forced to buy insurance", outside of the cost of the whole damn thing is what galls me the most as well. Reminds me of when my state (tried) to force me to wear a seat belt. Luckily my car has an armrest in the center of the front seat that is perfect for looping the seat belt around so it looks like I'm wearing it. I know... I know... it would be about as easy to hook the seatbelt up, but there are some things one just does on principle.
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Well, good luck with trying to claim health insurance after you've had a car accident in which you weren't wearing a seat belt.
 
Milan Spasic said:
Well, good luck with trying to claim health insurance after you've had a car accident in which you weren't wearing a seat belt.
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or be self persevering and BUY YOUR OWN health care.

Your points are skewed Milan..

I dont HAVE to buy car insurance.. I can simply choose not to drive ..
Fire.. police.. army.. roads.. so on.. thats infrastructure. OBVIOUSLY you need to pay a tax in order to have these things available to you, that makes perfect sense.

However, why am I FORCED to buy health care?
Im smart.. i pay my own health care, but first off I dont want to be told that I absolutely must have it or im going to prison. Once they dip into this mandatory HEALTH stuff.. it gets weird. They can now tell me what I can and Cant eat, what I need to inject into my body.. so on.
 
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