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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Rocket to Avid through QT File

J

Jesse Korosi

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Current Software:
Rocketcine 1707
Metacheater 1.5
Avid Media Composer 3.5.9

Goal:
Avid Project
23.98 - 720x480 SD

Old Workflow: (that worked)
- RocketCine - Render 640x480 QT at 23.98 with DNXHD36 Codec
- Metacheater - Import QT file - Set project size to 1080HD, change framerate to 23.98. Save ALE.
- Avid - Create 1080P 23.98 project. Import ALE - Switch Format of Avid project to SD - Batch import QTs.


New Workflow: (that wont generate 23.98 and only imports to avid as 29.98)
- RocketCine - Render 640x480 QT at 23.98 with Avid DV25 as the codec.
- Metacheater - Import QT file - Set project size to NTSC, change framerate to 23.98. Save ALE.
- Avid - Create NTSC 23.98 project. Import ALE - Batch import QTs.

-----------

So with the new workflow before even batch importing the QT file into Avid, the timecode is going all the way up to 30 instead of switching the seconds marker once it hits 24frames.

When checking the info on the QT Rocket generated the file is indeed 23.98.

So there must be either something I am doing wrong within Metascheater, or maybe there is some sort of meta data within the QT that is telling Metacheater it is actually 29.98?

If anyone has any ideas or suggestions that would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
 
720p/59.94 is a SMPTE 30fps format for timecode and deck control. Like NTSC, from a SMPTE point of view, 24fps is a manufactured format even when the project is 720p/23.976. Highlight the START column, do a command-D or control-D and select the 24TC from the pop up menu. It will convert the timecode to 24fps to match the original sources. If you display the 24TC above the monitor, you will see it turn over at :23. Avid MC can track, 24, 25, 30, etc. all within the same project.

Michael
 
Thanks for your response Michael!

I am not able to duplicate the column and or put anything in the TC24 column, is there other columns that have to be filled in before you can manipulate the TC24?

I have never had to do this with anything other then Standard def material. Why is this different then from 720 and or 1080 files?

Cheers,
 
Jesse Korosi said:
I have never had to do this with anything other then Standard def material. Why is this different then from 720 and or 1080 files?
Click to expand...

Because Avid projects are based on legal video formats. There is no such thing as a legal 24 frame video format other than 1920x1080. The only frame rate for standard definition video is 29.97, and the only frame rate for 720p is 59.94 (or 60). 720/24 is a data only format and does not exist in the video world, just as 525/24 is data only.
 
Make sure your project is a matchback project at the very least.

Michael
 
Interesting.
I have always provided clients with Avid 23.98 media that I converted with the workflow I mentioned above, because I thought this would ensure a proper online that would match back to the original footage. That was indeed shot 23.98 on the Red.
 
M Most said:
Because Avid projects are based on legal video formats. There is no such thing as a legal 24 frame video format other than 1920x1080. The only frame rate for standard definition video is 29.97, and the only frame rate for 720p is 59.94 (or 60). 720/24 is a data only format and does not exist in the video world, just as 525/24 is data only.
Click to expand...

i am not sure that above statements are fully correct: for example - 720p with 25 frames is also possible and definitely legal, as well as in standard definition - 625/25 :).

do not forget about us in PAL area.


thanks,

filip

p.s. still wondering about 720p/24... are you sure sure? maybe it's just myself, but can you explain what is VIDEO WORLD in this case? do you mean: not possible on TAPE? or not possible to broadcast? or something else?
 
filip kovcin said:
i am not sure that above statements are fully correct: for example - 720p with 25 frames is also possible and definitely legal, as well as in standard definition - 625/25 :).

do not forget about us in PAL area.
Click to expand...

I'm not. 720/25p is not a valid video format either. In PAL countries the 720p format is 50p. 25p is only a data format. There is also no 625/25p video format (it's 625/50i only).

p.s. still wondering about 720p/24... are you sure sure? maybe it's just myself, but can you explain what is VIDEO WORLD in this case? do you mean: not possible on TAPE? or not possible to broadcast? or something else?
Click to expand...

Both of the above. In the file world, you can have whatever you want. But in the video world, you must adhere to standards that have been set up by various standards setting organizations and adhered to by all equipment manufacturers. So although you can have, for instance, 720/24p or 720/25p in your Final Cut timeline, you can't play either of these formats out through a video interface (such as HD-SDI) to a monitor because neither format exists in the video world. When you play them out, they must be converted to either 720/60 (by adding frame based 3:2 pulldown) or 720/50 (by repeating each frame twice).
 
Correct. I am referring to NTSC based workflows for 720p/59.94 and 720p/23.976. 25fps has the same edit rate regardless of SD, 720p/25 or 1080p/25. Things do get changed when dealing with 1080p/24 in a 25p world - the Sony decks for example recalculate from 00:00:00:00 which MC handles as well when going from START to 24TC.

Michael
 
M Most said:
Because Avid projects are based on legal video formats. There is no such thing as a legal 24 frame video format other than 1920x1080. The only frame rate for standard definition video is 29.97, and the only frame rate for 720p is 59.94 (or 60). 720/24 is a data only format and does not exist in the video world, just as 525/24 is data only.
Click to expand...

So are you saying that the workflow that I explained at the top of this thread will work ("New Workflow") in terms of being able to reconnect back to my R3Ds and being frame accurate...? Also adding in Michael P's answer to Duplicate the Start column, into the 24TC column.



Also,
I think I get get what you are saying about the output of any HDSDI signal never actually being 23.98. But why would there have been a project setting preset in Avid for "NTSC 23.98" if it wont actually let you import anything at that frame rate?
 
When making an EDL, choose the 24TC column as souce and you are all set for frame accurate 24 frame EDL's since you are editing at the native frame rate.

NTSC 23.976 exists to capture off of NTSC based formats removing the 2:3:2:3 or 2:3:3:2 pulldown cadences from the signal. Native 23.976 media can be imported iinto the system, ut just the metadata that gets adjusted to reflect the START ti be 30fps and the 24fps gets tracked in the 24TC column. NTSC (and PAL) with 24 frame editing and tracing has been done this way in MC since 1992.

Michael
 
O.k. This makes a lot more sense to me now.
Thanks for the detailed response!
The other workflow I was using was taking forever to create the original qt and then also to convert the codec back to dv25. Literally like 6 hours per shot hour. Going straight to dv25 cuts off about 3/4 of the rendering time!

Thanks again to everyone that chipped in within this thread!
Cheers,
 
You're welcome.

Michael
 
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