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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RED... looks great, looks not so great. Why?

Jannard

Jannard

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Some of you have figured it out. Some have not. Some see RED as an ISO 160 camera, some an ISO 320 camera and some comfortable to shoot ISO 1000. Some see low dynamic range, some high. Some get noise, some do not. Why the difference?

RED needs to be rated and exposed properly. Then it needs to be sent through post properly. With many ways to do each, it can be confusing. Some have gotten it right and some have struggled.

We recognize the need to simplify the process... from exposure through post. And we are working on it. We believe that we will present a new way to look at shooting RED early next year. An exposure methodology that works and a new post workflow (color science) that makes it near impossible to screw up. Easy as 1,2,3.

These are exciting times at RED. We really appreciate our customers and those brave enough to shoot RED. We believe that everything we do (and have done) can be done better. We stay awake at nights working on new solutions to make shooting RED easier and and with better results.

Thanks for your support.

Jim
 
I wonder if by trying make something more idiot proof you just attract bigger idiots. This is what I'm seeing.
 
For what it's worth, I saw Lovely Bones tonight, and I couldn't tell what was shot on RED and what was shot on Arri. I'd like to put a vote in for the "looks great" side of the argument :)
 
That sounds just great.
For me the most confusing parts were:
Meters not always just showing RAW exposure no matter what view mode
False Colour not working properly in RAW mode
Calling the sensor sensitivity and ability to shift mid grey point ISO
Different space and gamma settings
Also I know some DOPs that don't understand that the sensor has a native 5000K setting. They underfeed channels and after rebalancing the white point and gaining the channels back up they wonder about noise.
I think the missing simplicity got people to handle the cam wrong (me too in the beginning) and made them talk bad about it (not me, not even in the beginning)
After hours and hours with the Red one on reduser and in post I know how to handle the camera but not everyone has the time to really get into deep. They need a quick and reliable how to and Im looking forward to your solutions!
 
I think the responsibility doesn't lie with the camera manufacturer - Its been proven over and over again that the Red One is an amazing tool in the right hands. I don't imagine that a painter who has yet to master his art blames the canvas or his paints, or that a writer who has yet to blossom blames his type writer.

I hope you guys don't feel the burden to make this all COMPLETELY idiot proof. Expert tools require expertise. And I say this as someone who is definitely still learning!
 
Jim,

Please continue to....

1) Kick ass.

2) Take names.

Thank you.
 
I just want to remind everyone that the greater the dynamic range and the lower the noise... the more flexibility there is in exposing (and mis-exposing) and working in different color temperatures.

So while I agree that these digital cameras have to be exposed "correctly" and hopefully at optimal color temperatures, the hope is that future improvements in dynamic range and noise will make these decisions less critical.

Because to err is human, even among professionals. To be blunt, shit happens. How a camera handles mistakes and abuse is an important consideration, not just how good it looks when shot perfectly.
 
David Mullen ASC said:
I just want to remind everyone that the greater the dynamic range and the lower the noise... the more flexibility there is in exposing (and mis-exposing) and working in different color temperatures.

So while I agree that these digital cameras have to be exposed "correctly" and hopefully at optimal color temperatures, the hope is that future improvements in dynamic range and noise will make these decisions less critical.

Because to err is human, even among professionals. To be blunt, shit happens. How a camera handles mistakes and abuse is an important consideration, not just how good it looks when shot perfectly.
Click to expand...

There is no question that more dynamic range and less noise makes things a lot easier... which is why we are spending so much time on sensor development. But there are ways to make exposure decisions much easier than they have been. We think we can do a better job of making a cinematographer's job easier and more predictable. We also think we can make it much easier in post to get things right. So that's what we'll do. All of the above.

Jim
 
David Mullen ASC said:
I just want to remind everyone that the greater the dynamic range and the lower the noise... the more flexibility there is in exposing (and mis-exposing) and working in different color temperatures.

So while I agree that these digital cameras have to be exposed "correctly" and hopefully at optimal color temperatures, the hope is that future improvements in dynamic range and noise will make these decisions less critical.

Because to err is human, even among professionals. To be blunt, shit happens. How a camera handles mistakes and abuse is an important consideration, not just how good it looks when shot perfectly.
Click to expand...

Well said. Tucking this one away for good. =]
 
Andrew Wilding said:
I think the responsibility doesn't lie with the camera manufacturer - Its been proven over and over again that the Red One is an amazing tool in the right hands. I don't imagine that a painter who has yet to master his art blames the canvas or his paints, or that a writer who has yet to blossom blames his type writer.

I hope you guys don't feel the burden to make this all COMPLETELY idiot proof. Expert tools require expertise. And I say this as someone who is definitely still learning!
Click to expand...

Ehhhh... yes and no. There's no reason to make something more difficult than it needs to be just to give the illusion of 'powerful'. If there are things which can be automated which improve the output then they should be automated. When you start your computer you don't have to write and compile drivers for all your hardware. The defaults should be great and you should only need to deviate from defaults in order to accomplish something specific. If white balancing your footage for instance results in a channel being clipped then gain should be automatically reduced to bring it back within the full exposure range. Personally I think that the default should be to preserve as much data as is possible so that creative decisions can be made later. If that means a completely idiot proof button which gives me peace of mind that I'm not losing data in the debayer and output process then I'll happily accept an idiot stamp.

I have enough creative challenges as it is. I don't need to worry that I made a mistake in the output somehow. We're talking about file conversion here. There shouldn't be any Gotchas.
 
Sounds great. Hopefully its going to save a lot of time and "headakes" learning the red workflow! Much appricated!
 
The goal to simplify the process sounds very good. Just hope the simplification is not going to be Microsoft-type of simplification where the system does all things automatically but it is made difficult to turn the automatic features off. I'm saying this, for personally prefer having manual control to squeeze the maximum out of the camera.
 
Lauri Kettunen said:
I'm saying this, for personally prefer having manual control to squeeze the maximum out of the camera.
Click to expand...

The question I would ask though is whether REDCine/r3d SDK is the place to do the squeezing. As soon as you export the footage you're baking in decisions which can't be undone. I suppose the exception to the rule would be outputting 8bit deliverables.
 
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