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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Disappointed by the Fixed form factor.

J

james Mallon

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I think the cameras are awesome but I have specific needs in that I live in Korea (south) and wanting to make a documentary and need to blend into the background. I really wanted the fixed to shot like a DSLR but the back end seems so long and a LCD screen will just make it worse. So I have to get the EVF but am still wondering if the back end of the camera will still make it look like I'm holding a Sony camcorder. What do people think, does anyone know deep the back end is and if it will look huge with a EVF and handle.


2/3 full setup and S35 are not options due to budget.
 
Hi James,

Anyong... I notice your name is not Korean, which I could possibly be mistaken, but could assume perhaps your not Korean? I have a Dutch name and am Korean, so anything goes. If that's the case, your not going to blend in anyways.

From a typical man on the street perspective, the fixed will have a smaller form factor from the subject viewpoint than a professional DSLR. I think that using the LCD and not having it in a shoulder position, looking like your using a hobbyist consumer camcorder would also help immensely.

Many street photographers prefer rangefinders due to the intimidating size of SLR/DSLRs. It also allows more situational awareness as both eyes are open. Maybe the 2/3 Cinema would be a better choice with a handle, a non-RED pancake lens and 2.8" LCD. Without the lens, it is a little bit more expensive, if you already own an appropriate lens, but I think you would be fine with the fixed. The fact that the fixed has everything built in, more or less a monolithic block of aluminum, no wires, handles, or other pro looking things hanging off of it, it is as discrete as you can get. The only thing that you'll need is a decent directional microphone. Using a large shotgun with the necessary exterior wind protection might be just a little bit much. Consider having a buddy record sound separately or with a wireless feed handholding the mic and it will help keep the bulk of the camera down. If you do fix a mic to the body, using a hypercardioid will massively reduce the size of the mic and keep the attachment bulk to a minimum.
 
I think you will be able to make the Scarlet look like a DSLR form. Use the gunner handle and few/no modules. You can use a wireless mic plugged directly into the brain via 1/8", single battery in the handle and CF.

No one will even notice you on the street!
 
Leaf Baimbridge said:
He said he lives in Korea. He didn't say he was Korean.
Click to expand...

and my point was that a miguksaram (or other caucasian) is not going to fit in on the streets of Korea anyways, so no "low profile" street walking no matter how you slice it.
 
HaHaHa thanks for the reply's.

I am a Yongguk saram if people know what that means. want to make a documantary on teachers here but if I film westerners anywhere with a Sony pd150 for example I would have a crowd surround me in aabout a minute so want to look as much as possible like a guy taking pictures of his friends. And yes I expect the observtion effect its part of being a 'whitey' here just need to tone it down.

Still not sure about the best way to go that won't be over or near the 10,000 dollar mark. The gunner seems way too ENG looking for my needs but thats only based on a partial render. I'm a fan of eye pieces to frame and steady the camera though I guess the lens stabalisation/lcd could serve me well.

Does anyone imagine how the LCD could be positioned to look like a dslr lcd, so far I have only seen them stuck on top making you look like your holding some kind of WOMD. Or setting it on the side with a hood/eyepiece to look like a EVF?
 
What about a Canon 7D with a zacuto viewfinder? Could be perfect for doco and keep your low profile intact!
 
WHat part of this photo makes you think its bigger than a DSLR?

Even with a side module and 2" LCD... I think this is very similar form factor to the DSLR.
8D3.jpg
 
Tim Whitcomb said:
WHat part of this photo makes you think its bigger than a DSLR?

Even with a side module and 2" LCD... I think this is very similar form factor to the DSLR.
Click to expand...

I think he's more worried about the length of it - while the interchangeable Scarlet is a similar length to an SLR, the fixed version's body looks five or six centimetres longer.
 
Yeah its more the depth of the Fixed and to be honest the D3 is a bit of a brick anyway so the comparison could be a little misleading. I've leaned recently toward something like a 7D but my vision for documentary is for a filmic image not reality show look. Honestly I find the Canon's image nice but lacks the dynamic range and is very digital looking to my eye, while Nikon has a more pleasing image but have yet to deal with rolling shutter even on the expensive D3s.

*Its a small point but I wish we had actual dimensions of the cameras to know exactly how big they are.
 
It might be a dumb question but can the bottom handle be fitted on the side and serve the same purpose in terms of being a physical handle. As its $500 cheaper it would help my budget.
 
James, rather than joining the growing league of wannabes who have great projects, but feel there is not a camera available now worthy of their project, for any number of reasons, My suggestion is... Get out there and shoot your project on what is available!

Stop worrying about a camera that is currently not for sale, and get to work on a camera that is!
If the story you are telling is a good one, it doesn't matter what camera was used to shoot it. People will watch it!
But if the story you are telling is lacking, then even shooting on the most expensive camera known to man won't compel people to watch.

All the Best!
 
David W. Jones said:
If the story you are telling is a good one, it doesn't matter what camera was used to shoot it. People will watch it!
But if the story you are telling is lacking, then even shooting on the most expensive camera known to man won't compel people to watch.
Click to expand...

Thank you, Captain Obvious!

I wonder if similar pearls of wisdom are offered at screenwriting forums with as much frequency: 'Hey, it doesn't matter how wonderful your character development and story arc is if you don't know how to light properly and focus the camera.' Or maybe you could stop in at your favorite import tuner forum and remind them that it doesn't matter how many horsepower your whip makes if you don't know how to drive a fast line.

While I know your intentions were entirely helpful, on a forum for hardcore motion-picture camera geeks I think it's safe to take "It's the story, stupid" as read.

Sorry to rant. As you can probably guess, it's a pet peeve ... :banghead:
 
Erik Bien said:
Thank you, Captain Obvious!

I wonder if similar pearls of wisdom are offered at screenwriting forums with as much frequency


While I know your intentions were entirely helpful, on a forum for hardcore motion-picture camera geeks I think it's safe to take "It's the story, stupid" as read.

Sorry to rant. As you can probably guess, it's a pet peeve ... :banghead:
Click to expand...

Sorry Erik, I didn't realize this was one of those hardcore motion-picture camera geek sites. I thought this site was where professionals came to inform/be informed. You do realize there are industry professionals who visit this site, who have been at this craft longer than you have been alive, who freely share information to help others. And as far as things being obvious, someone had to teach me which side the emulsion was on before I loaded a mag 35 years ago. Not all people are at the same level of knowledge as you! As far as my intentions... I'll be Captain Obvious once more and say...
Ever heard the phrase Content is King? Well it's not if you don't shoot it!
So many folks have gone ultra-geek and put their lives on hold, because the only camera good enough for their project, is the one that has not been released yet. When in fact, any number of available cameras would have worked.
I was just trying to get someone to shoot their project,
rather than having it lumped into the bunch of shelved projects out their that have been waiting to be shot on a Scarlet for some time now.

All the Best!

Dave
 
This argument has been done a million times its DVX fodder. But this is a RED User forum so the focus is on using the RED cameras.

I think my project is going to be a longer term documentary and deserves as professional a look as possible to give it a chance to be sold at a documentary/film festival here. I have some contacts at some TV stations here and if the contect is TV quality (which isn't difficult here) it has a good chance of being aired.

One point I have is that have any documentaries really been made on a DSLR yet, apart from a web series or something. The Dslr are flawed still for sound and rolling shutter. Honestly I would take a DVX100a over any of them if it wasn't for the needs I have already mentioned in the OP. But in the end Scarlett/RED is an amazing camera that shots movie quality images give me one reason why I wouldn't wait 6 months for that!
 
snark.gif


Erik Bien said:
Thank you, Captain Obvious!

I wonder if similar pearls of wisdom are offered at screenwriting forums with as much frequency: 'Hey, it doesn't matter how wonderful your character development and story arc is if you don't know how to light properly and focus the camera.' Or maybe you could stop in at your favorite import tuner forum and remind them that it doesn't matter how many horsepower your whip makes if you don't know how to drive a fast line.

While I know your intentions were entirely helpful, on a forum for hardcore motion-picture camera geeks I think it's safe to take "It's the story, stupid" as read.

Sorry to rant. As you can probably guess, it's a pet peeve ... :banghead:
Click to expand...
 
Kristian said:
How big is it??
Click to expand...

I'm still confused about it. I know they've added a record button to the body itself now, but won't it still need the side handle for a power source? I supposed there might be some kind of direct power option but if 99% of us get the side handle then it looks like it'll end up looking pretty much like the D3. Still a decent size for a vid cam, but if it'll really be that big and weigh 5-6 pounds, it won't be something hanging around my neck for fun, that's for sure.

I agree with a previous poster that a VDSLR might be good for what you're going for to stay inconspicuous. I've seen docus from VDSLRs and rolling shutter isn't really an issue for those types of work (unless you're doing a documentary show like Cops). I understand the 7D and 5D were used for the opening of SNL so apparently its good enough to be aired. If there's no rush and the price of the Scarlet is good for you, I would personally wait cuz if I had the Scarlet I think that would cover me for the next few years unlike a VDSLR which I expect to upgrade in about 18 months due to the limitations of the current generation.
 
Here's a part of an email I got from Chaia Benes of RED on Marck 13, 2009

"Thank you so much for your email and interest in RED. The Scarlet 2/3 complete kit includes power, finder and media module. This information can be found on the Scarlet FAQs on our forum at this link: http://205.234.135.241/forum/showthread.php?t=23184."

One of the reasons I was hanging on so long was because the Kit came with a finder, which I think they meant, "View Finder". Now, I have to shell out an extra $3,200.00 to add one on to the kit.
 
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