FCP Media Manager makes R3D proxies self-contained??

[paulbuhl]

Have a potentially dumb question:

I found that using the "copy" option in Media Manager on a sequence cut with F proxies (or any proxie) will turn that proxie into a self-contained REDCODE file that appears to have data of the R3D, and does not need to point or reference the R3D. It will also remove unused media and add handles, etc. Is this a legitimate file compared to the original R3D?

Thanks!

Paul Buhl

 

[Craig Parkes]

I'd be very surprised if it was actually truncating the files and adding handles properly. I would think it would at best just be copying the original R3D files.

Can you reveal in finder and see if they are the same size?

 

[rod bradley]

Yea, I would be surpised as well -- pleasantly surprised.

 

[joe hedge]

It will also remove unused media and add handles, etc. Is this a legitimate file compared to the original R3D?

Not from the R3D it won't. It'll transcode and consolidate from already transcoded QT's, for what you're talking about you need Monkey Extract.

 

[Uli Plank]

Sure? haven't tried that with Media Mangler, but after all a native ingest by L&T is actually making the files self-contained (and cut down if in- or out-points are set).

 

[paulbuhl]

I understand the skepticism, but I can open the newly created files independently of the original R3D (entirely different folder) and QT shows them as REDCODE 4096x2048 163.21 mbps and the file length has been accurately modified w specified handles! Strange to me as well.

 

[Ben Brainerd]

Try opening the new file in RedAlert/RedCine.

 

[paulbuhl]

new files are .mov, so changed ext to .R3D, both RED alert and cine accepted the files but would not play them! Interesting. So the newly created files are QT w REDCODE codec but not real R3D??

 

[Simon Blackledge]

I have done this before. then tried again and it failed.

cant remember the conclusion but i think it was actually making them into prores in the end but was confused :-/ hmm..

might try again..

s

 

[Chris Kenny]

Exactly what's going on here is rather confusing. The fact that the files can't be opened in RedAlert and RedCine doesn't necessarily mean anything; those apps can't normally open QT-wrapped R3D data. That's what these media managed files would be, if anything.

But Color can deal with QT-wrapped R3D (from and FCP L&T in "Native" mode) without referring back to original R3D files. Yet when you do a "Send to Color" on a project media managed as described here, the Red tab is disabled. So either it isn't real R3D data at all, or it is, but the metadata is wrong in a way that prevents Color from recognizing this.

Either way, it makes media managing projects containing R3D footage completely useless at the moment.

 

[paulbuhl]

agree that without the RED tab, there's no point in using this concept to conform, then send to Color. But so far for me, I've had no problems with sending un-conformed proxie sequences to Color, then out as ProRes, etc. But where this might be a helpful process, is if you edit in FCP with the H proxies, and were planning to color correct in FCP (not Color) for speed/simplicity sake, then instead of transcoding to Prores on conform, just simply use the "copy" option which makes your conform time, fractions less. You then have a media managed version of your REDCODE media at 2K res. This interesting to me because I primarily work on features with 30-50 hours of source media. In a lot of cases, these projects just need a good solid HD version to screen, then if picked up, will go out to real color grading (Da Vinci, etc) with the 4K. But as the offline / stroy editor, I like to have a conformed 2 hour version of HD or 2k media in the end for archival.
Understood that this is not the ultimate workflow concept, but if you're planning to do everything in FCP on a project, it would simply save a decent amount of transcoding time, when conforming.

To then add my own counter point to the debate, I'm starting to feel that given how affordable drive space is now, there will be less and less a need to actually create a conformed / with handles separate version of your media. I know this was a huge time saver with the old school offline to online "tape" workflow because then your re-capture / digitizing time from tape in the online environment was greatly reduced. But digital format and lower technology costs are creating vast options here.

Just experimenting and learning as I go!

Paul.