Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Scarlet Questions

Felix van Oost

Felix van Oost

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 2, 2009
Messages
73
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Singapore
Hi all, I'm new here and like a lot of you I'm looking at buying a Scarlet 2/3" Interchangable when it finally comes out. I'm a relative novice to the world of cinematography, and being 15 years old I obviously have a lot to learn yet. I have a few questions though which I hope some of you may shed some light on:

1) I plan on using Nikkor (Nikon) AF-S lenses as I already have a few and they're cheaper than the Red ones. I know that I will need the Nikon Electronic mount for the Scarlet and that it has electronic focus capabilities as well as zoom data. I also know about the Touch Focusing feature that the Scarlet will be incorporating. I film mainly action sports (high-speed mountain biking) and would ideally need the lens to change the focusing automatically when the subject gets closer or further away from the camera without having to do it manually. Now I'm confused if the the nature of the Auto Focus feature on the Scarlet means that it will do that anway, or if it's something else (I believe it might be called Follow Focus)? Anyway, does anyone know if the Scarlet will do this or if I will have to focus manually.

2) Since I plan on using Nikkor lenses, they obviously weren't designed specifically for the 2/3" sensor and I understand that the lens characteristics may change. I've heard quite a bit about cropping (although not too concerned about this as I have a variety of lenses at my disposal) but I wanted to know if the characteristics of the lens will produce abburations or other artifacts on the footage?

Thanks very much for your help!
 
1) As stated by the latest announcement the electronic mounts will provide focus and iris control, but I wouldn't expect highly sophisticated autofocus action

2) on a 2/3" scarlet your nikkor glass will have roughly a ~3.5x crop factor, meaning that you'll have lot's of options for telephoto work but none for anything remotely wide. For actionsports get the fixed 8x scarlet as it'll have an autofocus lens+ fly-by-wire built into the brain, making things a lot easier.
 
Juhan Malmstein said:
2) on a 2/3" scarlet your nikkor glass will have roughly a ~3.5x crop factor, meaning that you'll have lot's of options for telephoto work but none for anything remotely wide. For actionsports get the fixed 8x scarlet as it'll have an autofocus lens+ fly-by-wire built into the brain, making things a lot easier.
Click to expand...

I see what you mean, that clears things up. I really want to avoid going with the 8x fixed lens Scarlet because quite a bit of the deciding factor for me is the ability to upgrade and keep it for years without having to sell the complete thing and buying a new one. Having a fixed lens means I won't have control over the glass I'm using and it'll mean I won't be able to change just the brain out when I want something bigger. But you brought out a really good point which I didn't know there, about the wide angle. Does it make a difference if I said that the lenses are designed for Nikon's DX digital sensors and not 35mm film? And do you think a wide angle lens (like Nikkor's 20mm or even 14mm wide angle) give me a nice, wide-angle shot or would it still not work? I guess I could go for the Red Mini-Primes but I have a feeling they're gonna be very expensive and I don't have a lot of extra money to spend (also the fact that they'll be rendered useless when I change brain).
 
Last edited:
Felix van Oost said:
But you brought out a really good point which I didn't know there, about the wide angle. Does it make a difference if I said that the lenses are designed for Nikon's DX digital sensors and not 35mm film? And do you think a wide angle lens (like Nikkor's 24mm wide angle) give me a nice, wide-angle shot or would it still not work?
Click to expand...

Unfortunately not. Generally lenses are just marked with focal lengths, so a 24mm lens on DX is the same as a 24mm FX lens. This means that on the full frame sensor, you'd get a wider field of view than on DX, since you're seeing a smaller area in the lens circle - hence the 'crop factor' (some lenses are marked with 'equivalent' focal lengths but I don't think the Nikon lenses are). If Juhan's 3.5x estimate is right, your 24mm lens would give you roughly the same field of view as an 85mm lens on a full frame sensor. Most wide angle lenses for 2/3" sensors start around the 7mm focal length.
 
Stephen Gentle said:
Unfortunately not. Generally lenses are just marked with focal lengths, so a 24mm lens on DX is the same as a 24mm FX lens. This means that on the full frame sensor, you'd get a wider field of view than on DX, since you're seeing a smaller area in the lens circle - hence the 'crop factor'. If Juhan's 3.5x estimate is right, your 24mm lens would give you roughly the same field of view as an 85mm lens on a full frame sensor. Most wide angle lenses for 2/3" sensors start around the 7mm focal length.
Click to expand...

OK, that makes sense. Say I were to get a 7mm (or round about) lens for the 2/3" Scarlet now, and I later upgraded to an S35 or FF35 brain, would that lens still be usable (albeit with a very, very wide angle)?
 
Felix van Oost said:
OK, that makes sense. Say I were to get a 7mm (or round about) lens for the 2/3" Scarlet now, and I later upgraded to an S35 or FF35 brain, would that lens still be usable (albeit with a very, very wide angle)?
Click to expand...

Well, it depends. Lenses project the image in a circle that must be bigger than the format you're shooting. So if that lens is designed for a full frame or a DX format SLR, it would be sufficiently large to cover any of those formats. You're going to be pretty hard pressed to find a 6mm or 7mm lens for a Nikon or Canon mount though. More likely is a lens designed for 16mm cameras, but this is unlikely to work on a s35 or FF35 brain - because the image circle would be too small. You'd get vignetting at best (where the corners are darkened) or at worst be able to see the image in a circle in the middle (see attached digram, not to scale.)
 

Attachments

  • circle.jpg
    circle.jpg
    11.9 KB · Views: 0
another point why you should get the fixed scarlet - you won't need to invest in glass so when you do decide to move on to a next brain(s35 or ff35) you can just sell your fixed brain and move on to s35 or ff35 and start using your nikkor glass without worrying about selling a bunch of mini primes or old c-mount lenses.

+ when shooting extreme sports you're usually not in the friendliest of environments so changing lens(cinema 2/3") will quickly let dust or snow or whatever in there - which again isn't a problem with the fixed 8x.

Oh and by the way - when shooting extreme sports you need to be FAAAAAAST meaning you'll definitely want a zoom lens, not a bunch of primes, and getting a normal zoom for a 2/3" camera is a costly business http://www.abelcine.com/store/product.php?productid=10822&cat=779&page=1 <-- an example of 2/3" zoom prices. Makes the fixed scarlet lens with autofocus seem pretty cheap, doesn't it.
 
The choice between fixed or interchangable brain is not an easy one for me to make now...

Both have their advantages and disadvantages. Advantages to getting the interchangable are that I don't HAVE to buy a new lens for it because I already have a few that would work - did some tests yesterday (although I may buy a 10mm lens for wide angle work), which is a big plus. It also gives me more control over the shot I want and the glass will be higher quality than the 8x Red lens. The interchangable brain is also slightly smaller and lighter (which is very important since I have to lug everything up and down mountains), and changing lenses won't be too much of a problem even in-the-field (done it with SLRs many times and never any dust etc.). Advantages to the 8x model is I get wide angle shots out of the box, but what's bugging me is that it's fly-by-wire and I want proper focus and zoom rings on the lens itself.

Just another question, if I got a bunch of DX-specific lenses from Nikon, would they be large enough to fill the FF35 sensor or would I get vignetting?

And does anyone know if the Scarlet will have a cold shoe mount anywhere, to mount my mic (Rode Stereo VideoMic)? A boom pole isn't really an option for riding shots as I usually film alone.
 
Last edited:
The fixed version lens will be a LOT sharper than your Nikons. 35mm lenses in general don't have the resolving power needed for the smaller 2/3" sensor. Plus the 2/3" fixed is just a brain with a permanent lens attached. You can upgrade to a different brain as with any of the other brains. All of the other accessories are interchangeable.
I am planning on getting a 2/3" interchangeable too, but I will be using vintage premium quality 16mm film camera lenses on it.
 
The lens I will most often be using (a Nikon 18-55mm) is a DX lens, and the Nikon site tells me that the DX lens are specifically designed for their smaller DX sensors so the image is smaller, and they say that vignetting will occur with 35mm sensors or film. So I compared the angle of view from my D40X to the current camera I use (a Sony HDR-SR12) and even taking into account the crop factor (which I calculated to be slightly more than 2x from my Nikon sensor to the Scarlet sensor), the angle was wider than my current Sony camera. Now the 18-55mm lens I would probably upgrade later on, and indeed I would have to if I got a larger brain, but it would do fine for now and save me a lot of money. As the lens is designed for the smaller DX sensors, I assume they would be able to focus better with the Scarlet than 35mm lenses do, as you mentioned that the 35mm lenses would have a problem with the small sensor, which I understand.

I know that all the accessories are compatible between the fixed and the interchangable Scarlet as well as the other brains. I don't like the larger brain of the fixed Scarlet, not the fly-by-wire and only one assignable ring. I also don't like the fact that the fixed lens takes away some of the creative control from me, and it might be 2-3 years before I get a new brain so I would not want to be limited for that.
 
A few more minor questions:

1) Does anyone know if the Scarlet will have a cold shoe mount? I have a Rode Stereo VideMic that I can't really use on a boom pole otherwise as I usually film alone.

2) Do we have weight figures for the 2/3" Scarlet yet? Although my actual tripod legs can take up to 30kg, the head I have now can only take 4kg and I would hope that I can get a pretty basic Scarlet setup within that limit (as the head is almost brand new and I don't want to sell it already).
 
Nice, thanks for that! Solves another problem.
 
i would not make a final decision before the next announcement on the 30th. i'm pretty much in the same dilemma. i actually think that the fixed lens will produce better images than cropped lenses - but we'll see. eventually, i think it will come down to cost for me. the costs add up on the I-C scarlet, and i'm not sure it will be worth it for me. right now i'm leaning back towards the fixed which will eventually end up as a B camera.

i think for your subject matter the fixed is going to be more desirable. but i'm waiting til the 30th at least to really start deciding - i'd advise again the same.
 
Like Paul said, I would definitely wait for the November 30th announcement. But if you were to get the 2/3" interchangeable and if the Red mini-Primes are within a reasonable budget, then I would go with those instead of the Nikkor lens. Even though the lens is for a cropped sensor, it still wouldn't work as well as a 2/3" lens.

So if you can't afford the mini-Red Primes then I would go with the 8x Fixed. You'll still be able to upgrade the body when you want, the only difference is you'll just need to get lenses later down the road. And not to mention the 8x Fixed should make some great images to begin with, especially with you just starting out.
 
For sure. I won't be making my final decision until the 30th. I just want to gather as much information as I can now to map out my options. I especially want to see what comes included with the IC Scarlet, or if indeed it is available as a kit. For example, I will need to know if they will include your choice of lens mount (surely they wouldn't ship the brain with no lens mount, and then make you pay $500 for it?) or the Base I/O Module.

I am under no illusion that the 8x fixed will not produce some stunning images, it's just the interchangable model has more appeal to me. I'm not a complete novice videographer, just I have never used Red before.
 
Last edited:
Felix van Oost said:
I am under no illusion that the 8x fixed will produce some stunning images, it's just the interchangable model has more appeal to me. I'm not a complete novice videographer, just I have never used Red before.
Click to expand...

You mean you're under no illusion that the 8x fixed will NOT produce some stunning images. :-P

For myself, since I do a good amount of event work, the deal maker/breaker for me is the sensitivity of the Scarlet fixed electronic zoom control. I'm used to manual control (as much control as I was able to get with the 'servo' zoom on my Sony VX2000, and I got quite good at it - beginning my zooms with the utmost of gradual onset and ending them with a fine finish). I bought one of those Vari-zoom controllers (for about $300), hoping that would help further, but (ugh) the onsets and ends of the zooms looked, by comparison, so abrupt and robotic that I was unable to use it. :-( So, again, for me, the deal maker/breaker will be the sensitivity/smoothness of onset and completion of zooms, using the fixed lens Scarlet rocker. Then again, if the control on the fixed model is too good, it might cannibalize the market of the other 2/3" models. :-O
 
Also get nice sharp picture with run and gun style from interchangable model will be very hard, because you must continualy focus and its not easy for us unexperiendced ones. This is not your usual user friendly autofocusing camcorder anymore. This is where the real filmaking starts.

I got same dilema which 2/3" Scarlet and I think the best way is to have both.
 
Petr, are we certain that the Scarlet will not have Follow Focus, to track moving objects like consumer camcorders do?

Yet another question - most of my Nikon lenses have Vibration Reduction, which is great for photos, but is it actually needed / does it have any effect for video? Would the VR actually work, since in needs power from the Scarlet to function (although the Scarlet would deliver power for AF so it should power VR too)?
 
Petr Dvorak said:
Also get nice sharp picture with run and gun style from interchangable model will be very hard, because you must continualy focus and its not easy for us unexperiendced ones. This is not your usual user friendly autofocusing camcorder anymore. This is where the real filmaking starts.

I got same dilema which 2/3" Scarlet and I think the best way is to have both.
Click to expand...

Two things I wonder about on the fixed lens version: Will it have auto focus and will it have optical image stabilizer?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top