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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Current RAID solutions?

Roberto Lequeux

Roberto Lequeux

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What would be the best deal of reliable RAID storage for a 2-camera feature project?

I see that Maxx has the 2TB 16-bay units but they are listed at $15k each. And one would likely not be enough in RAID-6 which I plan to use for uninterrupted operation with redundancy on set. Maxx would probably be a safe bet, and re-sale might be decent, but there has to be a plug and play 32TB competitor out there by now.
 
Roberto, framestores don't have a good resale value. There are many reasons for this. The HHDs will reach in 5 years their EOL an must be replaced. Plus the technology is advancing in this area pretty fast. New, faster and more reliable controller hit the market every year and that does also count for connection standards. Was 10 years ago FC the way to go and SATA a couple of years ago is now SAS the new cool - if we talk about local storage.

Check out Arcea. The HDDs are placed in a JBOD enclosure with no raid controller because the raid controller is attached on the SAS board of the host computer. This arrangement is pretty clever and makes the framestore cheaper to build. Again a new technology.

You buy a new video raid because either your old one reached EOL or you need the storage ASAP. Not a good idea to park money on such a thing.

Hans
 
I see. I thought the cards weren't evolving fast and the enclosure wouldn't depreciate much though not a prominent portion of the investment. As to the HDDs themselves I am well aware of the pace on that sector so "decent" was meant as a weak adjective but might have sounded better than it should.

My concern is being able to get something reliable Raid-6 or Raid-5, while the speed isn't as important and a "decent" performing card would do since we are not planning on working many stations off the same drive at the same time.

It is hard for me to know what it will take but something like 500MB/s should be enough to run moderately complex compositions with a few layers off a few different source clips. This is RedCode we are talking about so I guess it really isn't heavy stuff.

I just don't understand how the price would go from the few thousand they would cost if I put one together myself, to the cost of these turn-key systems which are multiple times that...

Perhaps I can build two myself and run them as two RAID-6's in a RAID-1 type setup, I would lose a lot of capacity, but I'd have piles of parity and added safety. That should cover the fact that it was built in house as opposed to a dedicated seller. You know?

If we shot RC36 or 42 we might be tight on space for a 2 camera feature, but ~23TB actual capacity might be enough if I do a good job of keeping our ratios where they should be. Then worst case scenario we run the second as additional storage instead of a copy and rely on our copy sent to the editor beyond the safety of the single RAID-6. The editor would have he's own RAID with added parity so we'd be in the same ball game... and all under the cost of one 16-bay 1TB turn key...

Can't I just hit the Staples easy button?
: )
 
Hi Roberto, Hans gave good advice. Not a good investment, even if you turn it around pretty fast. There are lots of pretty easy SAS solutions out there at far less cost. Even name brand solutions, like Sonnet.

I'd wait as long as possible and set it up yourself if you need to save money. You might even consider Raid 5 -- and have your backup files stashed static off-line, preferrably on LTO tape (also more production insurance friendly) but if necessary, short term, on drives. If drives, I'd suggest doubling up and splitting locations. Drives are pretty cheap these days. And will just keep getting less expensive per gig I'd guess.
 
I want the responsibility far away from me, but could really use a deal so I can spend it where it will count on the screen. I am counting my pennies, not because the project is small, but because I am too aware of the trade-offs since I am producing.

The CineRaid guys think they can give me a quote that just might make it through our desired window of opportunity. I heard they supply Maxx and other re-sealers with components, or software... something, not sure what, but for RAID solutions. Unfortunately I don't know how to verify this and I would need to before I went with a company that I haven't been lucky enough to hear about till very recently.
 
rodbradley said:
I'd wait as long as possible and set it up yourself if you need to save money. You might even consider Raid 5 -- and have your backup files stashed static off-line, preferrably on LTO tape (also more production insurance friendly) but if necessary, short term, on drives. If drives, I'd suggest doubling up and splitting locations. Drives are pretty cheap these days. And will just keep getting less expensive per gig I'd guess.
Click to expand...

Rod is spot on.

No Raid is safe. I once owned a cheap LaCie Biggest Disk configured in Raid5 which is supposed to be safe agains disk failure. It was. But not against a controller that screwed up my data. I dumped the drive. My 7 years old trusty ChristieR6 12 bay FC framestore never let me down and now got new HDDs and is still running. It was pretty expensive (10k, six years ago) but CIA grade (lol). In the not too likely case that one HDDs fails rebuilding a raid can take days, literally, depending on the amount of data. Yes, there are possibilities to do that in background, but....

Even I consider this old array as pretty safe I make 2 backups of my projects right from the first shooting day: one on HHDs and one on tape (LTO). The tape backup sits on a shelf in a different location.

Speed. 500 MB/sec is very fast. configuring a array in raid5 or 6 will bring this performance down, filling it up with data will slow it down even further. The empty 500 MB/sec Raid0 array will be in the end a 350 MB/sec framestore which is still very fast. Generally the manufacturers tend to promise more speed than you will find in real life.

Lifetime. I only have experience with framestores that sit safely on a shelf in an air conditioned room. If you want to carry that thing around life time will be much shorter and the case of failure much more likely. This must be considered.

Hans
 
Rob,

I puchased the 8 bay Cineraid tower and it's been working flawlessly since June 09. The whole unit was allready configured to work with my MacPro when I received it, just installed the controller and the drive automatically mounted, ready to go. I first saw them at CineGear Expo and also noticed that this was the same gear that Maxx Digital was charging so much more for. If you look closely at the Maxx Digital line, they are using the Areca controller, which is the same controller CineRAID is using. I researched Areca and they seem to have a very good RAID controller reputation. I even found Areca linking directly to Cineraid from the their site, so I think Areca and Cineraid might be the same company. The RAID controller was key to making my decision.

Also, no RAID is 100% secure, there is alway going to be failures, it's inevitable. A RAID is not to be mistaken for a backup solution, this is only meant for redundacy and keep your ass working late through the night when a drive fails. :thumbsup:
 
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