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RED Scarlet and Epic, the new film school standard

Andrew Rieger

Andrew Rieger

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Looking at these news RED cameras, I believe that they will become incredibly popular with film schools and even become the most popular film school camera. The cost and performance will be very appealing to institutions. Schools must turn out a profit and make tuition go as far as possible. The new breed of RED cams will fit the bill and after graduation, many students will probably continue with RED because it is what they know and trust. I think that RED should work with film schools to bring the Scarlet and Epic into the classroom. This would place RED on the top of the cinema-cam food chain with the next generation of digital filmmakers. What do you guys think?
 
NormLi said:
That's true but do we all want the camera to be known as the 'the top film school' camera? It feels like it lowers it's intrinsic value.
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Nonsense. It just means it is an affordable industry standard. The value comes mainly from the words "industry standard" not from "affordable".
 
NormLi said:
That's true but do we all want the camera to be known as the 'the top film school' camera? It feels like it lowers it's intrinsic value.
Click to expand...

Exactly, students will want something better when they leave school.
 
scarlet??
 
I don't see it as a bad thing. Students use the same computers to make visual effects that a lot of big post houses do as well- does that lower their value?

Noah
 
Many of the top notch film schools are already using some of the best cameras around. Besides, out of school, many grads are not going to be going right into gigs where they have access to A-list gear. A lot of MFA films are shot on 35mm which is now, the gold standard. As telecine costs rise, more schools will adopt digital. Keep in mind the schools are educating students in the latest and greatest tech. The industry, while still primarily film-based, is moving towards digital because of cost so that is what film schools in the future will teach. 35mm film will always have its place in school and I think 16mm will still be a popular format but when a new Aaton 16mm camera cost $43,000 and a 35mm costs $125,000, we can see why RED is such an appealing option. Hell, even the new Arri digi cams are tipping the cost scale at $55,000 so the Epic X should be the perfect school cam. I don't think film school cameras are seen as "low-grade", RED is already taught in some schools and as we can see, the demand is high, most indie filmmakers at one time or another have wanted to try RED out. As you can see, there are plenty of A-list films being shot on RED with ultra-high budgets and there is a local guy here in San Antonio who shot on RED with a film budget of only $10,000. That is the great thing about RED, it serves all breeds of filmmakers which is why it is so well suited for higher film education. This is just my opinion. Hell, I'm just an undergrad freshman and I am not even in film school yet so I have no real idea what they look for in camera gear. I'm sure I will find out when I go for a MFA in film in a couple of years.
 
Our school has a few instructors who commonly use the One, I see them in little shoots about once a month. They were going to invest in a whole bundle of them but they decided not to because of some workflow issue with Avid. So we just stick with ARRI products it seems. Also some EX1s and HVXs for the lower productions and documentaries. I'll be graduated by time these cam's come out unfortunately.
 
NormLi said:
That's true but do we all want the camera to be known as the 'the top film school' camera? It feels like it lowers it's intrinsic value.
Click to expand...

Pretty arrogant statement if you ask me. I have always associated the 2/3" scarlet with the bolex...that literally is the first 'film' camera that students use. Why shouldn't Scarlet be that. Lynch, Spielberg, Cassavette, Coppola all claim Bolex as their first camera...not to mention Stan Brakhage, Maya Deren, Andy Warhol and of course the french Avant Garde artists...

Why not give the future artists of the world the best tool.

Like another poster stated I had a film in a festival few years ago that i made for £200 on a JVC HD100, I was up against some of the biggest Universities in the country all of which had at least £50-80,000 budgets for their short films. There was only two films in the festival that were shot digitally (mine being one).
 
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As a recent film school grad, I can say that while a lot of schools may *WANT* the RED, not many of them will get it.

Why? Because while most school's *production* gear is top-notch (ArriCams, etc) their post workflows are sorely outdated. At least ours was. I can't speak for the NYUs and USCs and other top-tier schools, but our school was focused on getting a lot of students through the labs as quickly as possible, and their equipment/workflows showed that.

Despite it being cheaper (At the lab we worked with anyways) to deliver digital files which could be ingested straight into the Avids, we stuck with a Beta-SP workflow. And by we, I mean the tech guys. We weren't exposed to workflow at all, really.

While I personally would love to see the RED in action in schools, I doubt it's going to happen soon, since the film/tape workflow is solid and reliable, and the RED workflow is still evolving.
 
Granted, I don't think that the change will happen over night. As production costs rise, schools will be looking for a camera system that is bleeding edge and is easy on the wallet compared to other offerings. Workflow is evolving but eventually, schools will need to adapt or they will no longer be relevant. If they want to stay on top, they need to teach what is on top. Investing in RED tech is a good investment in the long run for them, unless the industry totally goes in a different direction which I doubt.
 
My school, Depaul, only has a Digital Cinema program. We don't use film camera's at all (which is a curse and a blessing). The curse for me personally is that as a budding student cinematographer, I am constantly teaching myself industry standards when it comes to film and how to expose by a meter instead of by a monitor (as it's easy to fall into that trap with digital cameras). Blessing: we own two RED One's which are currently only being used for MFA films but we are getting to the point where we will have a class for the advanced undergrad/grad students to use the R1 on their shoots.

Depending on what goes down on Nov30th, we will probably be getting a couple scarlets which will be sick. Though I am buying my own so its not a problem and I don't have to share!
 
I agree with what everyone is saying here. I guess I'm just annoyed by so many of these so called filmschools with short programs that pump out students every few months and charge ridiculous money for it. They just give filmschools a bad time and when I hear the suggestion that EPICS will be associated with schools like these, I just didn't want to hear it I guess. My bad for saying what I said earlier but I think if you knew some of the students out there that I've seen from these schools, you would probably think similarly with me. Schools that are respected, I respect. When they use Arricams/Moviecams/etc. that's very cool. There are just too many backalley filmschools out there to group them all together and say they are all good...some are just plain scams.
 
I agree with Norm, not all film schools are created equal. I am looking at getting a MFA in after undergrad studies and if I don't get into a top notch program, I am not going to bother and just go right into the industry. No need to waste money on a second or third tier program.
 
SCAD has a few RED cameras, I am here right now speaking at the fest...they seem well invested. good stuff.
 
I think RED should donate and/or sell cheap, all the traded in RED ONE's to film schools. Everyone should learn on that camera FIRST... like we all did. If you can shoot well on that camera, you will be that much better on Scarlet and Epic in my humble opinion.

Kind of like when I started on 8mm... and then Super 8 and then, Super 8 with sound!
 
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