Worst Piece of Nonsense ever "Published"...

[Eugenia Loli-Queru]

>So, why this attack on RED and Jim?

It's not an attack, it's how I see things. I am personally very unhappy and disappointed on how Jim runs this business.

>Now I'm not quite sure where you are coming from. I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt. This is starting to smell a bit foul. If you were planning on getting a Scarlet, I would understand some of the frustration. Bu you're happy with Canon and they have a new super camera coming out that you know about so why the the blog? Just curious.

I WAS considering the Scarlet this past year. But I am simply not happy where all this is going. I've lost my interest, and my hope that RED is going to release a complete system 2/3 Scarlet for $4k-$5k. They originally promised something even cheaper! Now, the prices are going up, the dates go longer, and I am having trouble believing that they are going to release at least one complete system for a price close to this.

In other words, as I said above, they over promised, and they are under delivering. I am not willing to play that game with them. If Canon, or Panasonic, or Sony comes with a better/cheaper solution, I will just go with that. It's simple economics and free market, it has nothing to do with a malice.

Anyways, this is all I have to say all that. I have nothing to add here.

 

[Andrae Palmer]

I've had the arguments with people like this before steve, you have to realize, we'll never win, they alway assume they know whats up.

(Oh and I've been hearing about the SUPER DUPER CANON CAMERA ever since RED was annouced, Who is the fracking vaporware now?)

LOL... she supports Canon vaporware. If its any consolation Eugenia... my first prosumer camera was an XL1s. I always felt extra special due to the s. If someone said to me... you have an XL1... I would always say... no... I have an XL1s. The s stood for small upgrade. I'm thankful now that RED doesn't keep me so depraved.

 

[Tyler Lambert]

Nice edit Eugenia, you caught yourself there, (or did I..)

Anyways, I think that Steve put it best (in answer to your problem with the marketing hype):

Think about the marketing strategy RED has employed. You may not like it, but it's effective. I would think their marketing budgets are far less than the big boys, and yet their reach is extraordinary when you consider the disparity in marketing dollars.

Take a second to think about that.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

I've had the arguments with people like this before steve, you have to realize, we'll never win, they alway assume they know whats up.

(Oh and I've been hearing about the SUPER DUPER CANON CAMERA ever since RED was annouced, Who is the fracking vaporware now?)

Zac, I really like your style by the way. You are a classic example of someone who is anxiously awaiting the Scarlet but went out and got yourself a camera in the meantime so you could shoot more and better yourself as a filmmaker. That's what it's really all about. When Scarlet arrives, you will be a better shooter than if you sat back and waited, no doubt in my mind.

 

[George Butterfield]

I am not a troll, or ignorant, but I definintely am entitled to my opinion.

I don't think you grasp the RED phenomena ...
RDC is different than other Companies.

Jim clearly states ...

"Everything in life changes... including our camera specs and delivery dates..."
We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone with a bad attitude.

Now start judging RDC based on this non-traditional approach.
If RED fails, then we who love originality and creativity also fail.

The Tattoo program actually will be a great benefit to Canon and Panasonic and everyone else. This beta approach to product development is truly revolutionary.

You recognize that RED is different, and so you conclude that it will fail.

Did you give any money to UNICEF? (referencing your blog) JJ probably gives more to charity in a week than you will in your entire life ... but I digress.

 

[John Caballero]

John, Red's style is not for everyone. I like a lot of the products offered by the companies you mentioned but I feel some credit has to be given to RED for at least coming in and trying a new perspective. Think about the marketing strategy RED has employed. You may not like it, but it's effective. I would think their marketing budgets are far less than the big boys, and yet their reach is extraordinary when you consider the disparity in marketing dollars.

I think the Red One is great. If you have at least $30K to invest in it is a terrific tool. What people are getting frustrated and actually sad about is the promise, thru beautiful renders, of a camera they could afford and produce a higher quality image that what is out there. It is not nice to get hopes high and then nothing. I know that the Scarlet won't happen for a very long while because logic says that a small piece of technology promising so much is not very easy to create. The rumors and hype should have started when it was very close to production, not so many years before.

 

[Craig Ryan]

>Which camera were you planning on getting Eugenia?

The new prosumer Canon that will come this Spring, with a bigger sensor. A bird told me.
For now, what I already have I am happy with.

Why do you criticize RED's business model? Jim started Oakley from the trunk of his car if memory serves..that means he's self-made. From scratch. He knows what he's doing; much more than us. Sometimes change can be scary, but it doesn't mean it won't work.

There are many who can afford a VDSLR at the moment that are holding out for Scarlet, and that is because they need something different than what VDSLRs have to offer. It's as simple as that. If the current crop of VDSLRs are fine for you and the people you know, then it sounds like your needs are much different than most of the potential Scarlet users.

What Canon will produce next is most likely NOT going to be what RED produces. Canon doesn't even have a professional digital cinema department last I checked; different companies with different needs in mind. Lastly, if Steven Soderbergh, or Peter Jackson shoot projects on a Canon next year, clue me in. Until then, I think it's safe to say that RED is going to be here for a while.

 

[Robert Frank]

LOL... she supports Canon vaporware. If its any consolation Eugenia... my first prosumer camera was an XL1s. I always felt extra special due to the s. If someone said to me... you have an XL1... I would always say... no... I have an XL1s. The s stood for small upgrade. I'm thankful now that RED doesn't keep me so depraved.

Yup, went through the XL1, XL1s, XL2 incremental "upgrade "path. It was the typical corporate approach to product "development".

 

[Steve Sherrick]

>So, why this attack on RED and Jim?

It's not an attack, it's how I see things. I am personally very unhappy and disappointed on how Jim runs this business.

I'll leave that for you and Jim to discuss.

I WAS considering the Scarlet this past year. But I am simply not happy where all this is going. I've lost my interest, and my hope that RED is going to release a complete system 2/3 Scarlet for $4k-$5k. They originally promised something even cheaper! Now, the prices are going up, the dates go longer, and I am having trouble believing that they are going to release at least one complete system for a price close to this.

Okay, fair enough.

In other words, as I said above, they over promised, and they are under delivering. I am not willing to play that game with them. If Canon, or Panasonic, or Sony comes with a better/cheaper solution, I will just go with that. It's simple economics and free market, it has nothing to do with a malice.

I'd be shocked if there was a better motion picture camera released by any of the companies you mentioned for under $5K. As I said, the DSLRs don't count for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is the codec. But your needs may be different than mine. That's why all of these companies are around. Different things appeal to different people. I don't fault you for making a choice to go elsewhere. I was just trying to understand why you were so upset, and I think you have stated your case. I have no further questions your honor.

 

[Tyler Lambert]

You must forgive me as I am relatively new to RED, but, how is it that the RED cameras get that "film" look and feeling? Is it the technology, the sensor? Surely if Canon or Panasonic came out with a 3k+ video camera, it would still not have that unique film look. Or am I wrong?

 

[J. Eric Camp]

I am the first to be happy to have an honest debate. However, the way that this has been conducted never was extended with the spirt of earnest expression and debate.

She had her expectations. She felt they were not met. She blogged and has come here to stomp her feet and make those feelings of disappointment known. There is nothing more to it. No debate. This isn't about another camera, another manufacturer or really even marketing strategy. Those are all subjects of variable perspectives. Her perspective is locked and as such we should just let it be what it is. She can buy the new canon, red killing, non vaporish gundam and be happy.

If you like your R1, and/or you are excited about what is announced, and/or you don't feel betrayed then enjoy the ride.

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

I'm trying to think of a way to say this without coming across as a troll but...

Eugenia it sounds like the best thing you could is hide under a rock for 6 months. I don't mean that as "go f yourself". I mean that somewhat literally. The amount of RED hype and over promising you hear is your own damn fault. If you don't want to hear RED Hype then don't listen to it. I'm excited about RED but I've always had well founded doubts as to RED's abilities to deliver. I've always thought they were sincere but optimistic. I remember mentioning that I felt like the REDOne was a beta product when it launched, Jim Jannard came down on me pretty hard in a post insisting that it wasn't a beta product, well... now it seems to be the official company line that they released a beta product. But that's not really something I have a problem with. Most of the software I use is currently in Beta, I like to be on the bleeding edge and I like that beta affords me the ability to still provide meaningful feedback before everything by necessity must be set in stone to ship. If that sort of workflow isn't for you then don't buy into it! If you don't want to see behind the curtain at the inner workings then don't look! If you don't want to know what RED is working on then don't listen! They've always been rather bombastic and use a great amount of hyperbole--but they have job titles like Mad Scientist and Leader of the Rebellion, what do you expect!

If you have a problem with over promising and underdelivering then just close it all out until they ship something and evaluate what is for sale when you want to buy it.

Personally I would rather know what their intentions are so that I can at least evaluate their claims and do a little internal conversion rate on what I feel safe they'll safely deliver and whether or not it's prudent to save or not. But to tell you the truth I don't see anything on the market that I'm interested in owning except for a RED. I'm not happy with any of the current options and I don't see anything in the pipe coming out that I would want either so I'm not just waiting on RED, I'm waiting on a camera period that I'd be willing to buy.

If you don't like speculation then don't speculate!

As to whether or not RED can deliver... I would be fairly certain this late in the game RED understands the challenges and can make some very very accurate estimations on what a camera costs and what features they can deliver. The problem is pretty well defined by this point and I would expect that as long as they keep the feature set somewhat static between now and delivery their ability to estimate costs should be pretty sound. And while RED might have been able to be unsustainable for the REDOne with 7,000 bodies the amount of scarlet sales would probably bankrupt Red and Jim along with it if he was giving them away. If REDOne could plasubily, maybe, possibly, somewhat work as an expensive side project the magnitude of what they're taking on with Scarlet and Epic would be impossible to do unless they understood the costs and returns pretty well.

 

[George Butterfield]

You must forgive me as I am relatively new to RED, but, how is it that the RED cameras get that "film" look and feeling? Is it the technology, the sensor? Surely if Canon or Panasonic came out with a 3k+ video camera, it would still not have that unique film look. Or am I wrong?

It is primarily from using 35mm lenses to focus on a chip about the size of a 35mm negative, (this results in a particular Depth of field depending on aperture etc.) and shooting at 24fps. These factors are similar to 35mm film movies and the resulting images are similar. Hence a "film" look. I think the desire for a "film" look is perpetuated by those shooting on actual 35mm film who are terrified of the video revolution.

 

[Tyler Lambert]

You wannna know something If there was a way that I could make footage from another, cheaper video camera, look similar to that of the RED One or supposed Scarlet sample footage, then I would go with that camera and do whatever post production editing I needed to do in order to attain that look.

I've spent hours upon hours trying to find the "secret" way to do it without having to spend $1000's, but I haven't found it yet.

As much as I hate to say it, at this point, I really do not need "3k" resolution, what I really want is that film look that I have sought for years, this seems to be the most affordable way to go about doing that.

 

[J. Eric Camp]

Here is another post from another user that I feel is a reasonable explanation of what I percieve to be similar feelings to what she is feeling:

Well, have been following the Scarlet progress for some time now, and we sure have come a LONG way from the 3K for 3K hype from past NABs. It seems like the more time goes by, the less it looks like I'm the right customer for this camera. Too bad really. I really love the concept.

But it looks like when Scarlet is released (and nobody knows when that will be) it will be priced well beyond what the average consumer is looking for in a good high-end camera. Nothing wrong with that. Just different from what the perceived target customer was from the beginning.

Note that I'm not saying the Scarlet is too expensive, it is certainly not. What has happened is the camera concept has been changed and improved to the point where its target customer has changed, and maybe that is for the better.

Time to move on...

This other post just did it more rationally.

 

[George Butterfield]

I also think Eugenia's UNICEF comment from her blog, "If he just wanted to pour money down a hole, he should have given the money to people who need it instead, e.g. via Unicef." is particularly stupid. All the employees of RDC are deserving people who need the paycheques that RDC provides. But her Vimeo clips are nice! Maybe we should all chip in and buy her a RED ONE to shut her up, instead of giving to UNICEF.

 

[Andrae Palmer]

It comes down to this... some people are just angry because they now realize that to be a part of the revolution they will have to save... not just grab pitchforks... but miserable saving. One class system got overthrown for another class system and the new class system is not much different from the old one. One set of money people for another set of lower level money people. Now to the people that have lower money than the new RED class.... they can't but help resenting them. It's kind of funny actually... kind of like the way RED users resented film shooters.... lol. Now film shooters are becoming RED users and you have the tattoo elite class. So the RED class is now tiered and is assimilating the previous film class. Now for the most part we all resent those elite RED users (previous film class) with their set of 250k master primes and 250k modern zooms... lol. The difference is that I may resent them... but I won't knock what they have... I want it too. Heck I even like film.

 

[Eugenia Loli-Queru]

>some people are just mad because they now realize that to be a part of the revolution they will have to save

Actually, in my case it is not that. You don't know my financial situation, so you don't have to generalize for my account.

My situation is this: My health is deteriorating (long standing stomach problem), and so I can't be out there shooting movies all day long. This is why I have limited myself to music videos (easier, faster to shoot usually). For music videos, I don't require the best damn camera that ever walked the earth. I require a good-enough camera for $4-5k maximum. The 2/3 Scarlet was supposed to be that (now, the 5D seems to be more appropriate, but that's another matter, that came later). Now, the Scarlet release times/prices/addons are changing, and this is simply not acceptable for me. After a year, not only we don't have a definitive release date, but we have carpet pulling.

So, it has nothing to do with not having the money for a RED EPIC or whatever other product. As I said, you don't know my financial situation. And I am not bitter for not being part of any revolution. I am bitter because I feel that I have been lied upon. I feel that RED sells us dreams.

As I said earlier, I've worked as a tech journalist (editor in chief for 4 years too). During that time, I came across HW and SW companies that would operate like RED operates now. Big promises, and at the end, zero to very small results that go nowhere. All of these companies I have in my memory right now have either got bankrupt, or they got bought for nuts. And some of them, are still in courts fighting lawsuits.

I'd hate to see the same kind of stuff happening to RED. Because I do recognize the value that RED has brought to digital filmmaking. But I simply despise what the company is doing right now, and what it looks to be going to.

I just don't believe the hype. What do you want me to do? I don't! And I am honest about it. I am not hiding behind my own finger.

 

[Andrae Palmer]

My situation is this: My health is deteriorating (long standing stomach problem), and so I can't be out there shooting movies all day long. This is why I have limited myself to music videos (easier, faster to shoot usually). For music videos, I don't require the best damn camera that ever walked the earth. I require a good-enough camera for $4-5k maximum. The 2/3 Scarlet was supposed to be that (now, the 5D seems to be more appropriate, but that's another matter, that came later). Now, the Scarlet release times/prices/addons are changing, and this is simply not acceptable for me. After a year, not only we don't have a definitive release date, but we have carpet pulling.

Well that by itself puts you into a lower level money people category. If money wasn't an issue why would you just require a good enough camera for 4-5k maximum?

 

[Robert Frank]

@Eugenia. BTW I like your videos.