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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Shane Hurlbut sez you can't tell the difference between 5D video and 35MM...

Surgeon General Warning: reading Reduser can be hazardous to your health! :smiley:
 
at least in a couple days it will definitely be for some haha ;)
 
Ace said:
He's on the right track...

Light well enough and anything will assume the socio-cultural cinematic perception of what film is meant to look like.
Click to expand...

That would be meaningful if he were among the first
to make this suggestion, but he's a bit late.
If he's on the right track, it's because it's a well beaten one.
Every monkey with a camera has already made the claim.
Another few pretty shots hardly add veracity, especially
around these parts. And if H.264 is so difficult to tell apart
from Film, I wonder what Scarlet RAW will be compared to.
Certainly not H.264, and by default, according to Shane,
not film either. Yawn.
 
"Light well enough and anything will assume the socio-cultural cinematic perception of what film is meant to look like."

If this were true, we'd still be shooting with interlaced video.
 
Bill Anderson said:
"Light well enough and anything will assume the socio-cultural cinematic perception of what film is meant to look like."

If this were true, we'd still be shooting with interlaced video.
Click to expand...

As long as something explodes, someone laughs, someone cries, the villain bites the dust and the hero gets the girl, who cares?

It's never the audience having these discussions. Or the guy with the MiniDV cam :(
 
"Who cares"- the filmmaker cares, that's who. And if he didn't
then the audience WOULD be having that "discussion".
They'd be crying and laughing for different reasons.
Film or mini DV. Wouldn't you agree?
 
Bill Anderson said:
"Who cares"- the filmmaker cares, that's who. And if he didn't
then the audience WOULD be having that "discussion".
They'd be crying and laughing for different reasons.
Film or mini DV. Wouldn't you agree?
Click to expand...

Yep! Content is king, no doubt, but if we as filmmakers don't care and choose convenience over quality then ultimately everyone will lose out. I think Shane Hurlbut just scored an own goal...
 
Shane's a talented enough guy, I'm sure he knows what he wants
to achieve with this "competition". And there are a lot of very talented
people on RED user- and they all have a grip on their craft.
If David Mullen were to announce that he was shooting his next feature
on H264 then I'd be barely containable as I waited to see how he interpreted with it.
The last thing that would enter my mind is "he's making a mistake".

Sometimes these camera comparison and counter claims can be mistaken
for amateur nitpicking, but (repetition aside) the issue is really craft dependent-
if we think all we need is indie bravura, a warm fuzzy feeling in our bellies and
H264 in order to compete in the film world then we're most likely in for a very rude awakening.
 
heres a fact.. YOUR mom doesnt know the difference between h264 and film..
your next door neighbor doesnt even know the difference..
Your sister says "h26 what?"
point is.. WE are the ones who notice..
the audience.. they have no Effing clue whats going on..
 
That's a fact you can take to your next film production, Zak. Others have their own facts.
 
Zakaree Sandberg said:
heres a fact.. YOUR mom doesnt know the difference between h264 and film..
your next door neighbor doesnt even know the difference..
Your sister says "h26 what?"
point is.. WE are the ones who notice..
the audience.. they have no Effing clue whats going on..
Click to expand...

People do notice image quality, even it they don't know why something looks like it does. I occasionally get complaints from video conferencing clients who think their H.264 720P HD video conference systems should look like Monday Night Football. Audience expectations are rising.
 
Newsflash. Contemporary cinema's platonic aesthetic has already changed in a multi-media centric world that is rapidly evolving. And it will keep changing, as the very definition of entertainment as we know it, changes.

Qualities remain timeless. interpretation changes.
 
Im not agreeing with shane.. I wont shoot a feature with something that wont give me what I want.. Im just saying.. alot of people wont know the difference.. I guarantee you that

ESPECIALLY on the computer like what he is showing.
 
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Zakaree Sandberg said:
heres a fact.. YOUR mom doesnt know the difference between h264 and film..
Click to expand...

Yeah well the audience isn't the one grading it or pulling a key.

H264 is the 4:1:1 of our day. It's a number which even many professionals don't understand. The audience would never under normal circumstances probably notice but makes the lives of the people who have to produce content that isn't noticeable to the audience a living hell.

People would never notice a 4:2:2 shot but they will notice the green screen shot that has a soft matte.

An audience member probably wouldn't notice the difference in a shot that uses a nice Arri matte box vs a c stand just out of frame.

The converse to this argument is that if it's going to be broadcast on television it'll get so heavily compressed by the cable or satellite company that the source material isn't terribly consequential.
 
Zakaree Sandberg said:
Im not agreeing with shane.. I wont shoot a feature with something that wont give me what I want.. Im just saying.. alot of people wont know the difference.. I guarantee you that
Click to expand...

Well, elderly ladies especially. A lot of people also will notice. What is your point ?


Gavin Greenwalt said:
The converse to this argument is that if it's going to be broadcast on television it'll get so heavily compressed by the cable or satellite company that the source material isn't terribly consequential.
Click to expand...

I don't understand what you're saying. The quality of source material dictates the compression quality.




I'm really curious about other ASC members' opinions on this, and especially on this:

Reduce Costs By Approximately $50,000 Weekly For A Camera Package By Choosing HDSLR Technology. Imagine the additional savings in post-production.
Click to expand...
http://www.hurlbutvisuals.com/



So, where's the 1080p footage ?
 
I saw this footage about 3 months ago screened from a HDCam SR deck, I don't know which projector but it was convincing. He didn't tell us before he showed it where the 5D stuff was but after he pointed it out.
 
Hrvoje Simic said:
I don't understand what you're saying. The quality of source material dictates the compression quality.
Click to expand...

To a point. But I just saw a T-Mobile spot I worked on broadcast in SD and I laughed at how heavily compressed it was. It could have been shot on a DVX100 on DV Tape and I could have spent a lot more time at home relaxing if that was the only deliverable.

It's the youtube effect. Nobody will ever notice Canon H264 compression artifacts once it's downrezzed and put on YouTube.
 
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