RED ALERT vs. RED CINE vs. COLOR

[Todd Gill]

Hey guys, I am having issues with color. I worked on a spot shot on RED back in July. Everything looked great. Workflow was awesome.

ProRes Offline
To Clipfinder for Conforming to R3D
To Color to Grade the R3D in 1080.
Then Rendered to.cin for compositing.

Had a minor Change to the End Logo This October so I had to bring back the R3D files in Color and Re-Render. and give to GFX for re-compositing. The results did not look the same as before(July Renders).

I know some things have changed since I 1st worked on this project.
1) updated the OS to snow leopard
2) Working with the NEW FCPS 3
3) Updated RED CODE Codec
4)Updated to FCP3 RED Plug-in

The images I rendered out were not looking the same as before.
I rendered out DPX, CIN and ProRess4x4 and compared to the Graded R3D in Color. There is a slight Gamma Shift up in the DPX and CIN files. but all still looks close. the ProRes 4x4 looks the closest.

But the Images I was seeing in AE was nowhere close. My GFX guy had some renders from July(Previous Edit) in his project, and they looked correct. But the new Renders (October)just are not right.

This has led me to do some further testing. I took a Shot through Clipfinder->Red Alert and Rendered out A DPX(RedLog Gamma/ RedSpace Color) and Also Rendered out a DPX in RedCine(RedLog Gamma/ RedSpace Color). I brought both DPXs and compared to the R3D file NOT GRADED(RedLog Gamma/ RedSpace Color).

The Out Come is alot of QUESTIONS.
I noticed that the COLOR R3D(RedLog Gamma/ RedSpace Color) does not look as flat as the DPXs from Red Alert and RedCine. Also ALL 3 Clips looked different. I atleast thought that Red Alert and RedCine would look the same, but they don't.

So wrapping things up, My questions are WTF is going on? Veiwing the Render output from color..Is there something wrong with Color or is it AE? Also why would I be seeing two different looks from RedAlert and RedCine? Is there a Fix for these issues?

Thanks,

Todd

 

[David Battistella]

Todd,

This makes perfect sense considering all of the upgrading you did. Everything in QT GAMMA changed in OSX_SL. I noticed that any project before the upgrade would need to be completely regraded in OSXSL.

Redcine and Red Alert do not handle the r3d files in the same way. CLipfinder and RA both use redline for renders, but I do not believe that RC does.

I have totally given up on RC since REDCINE-X and when I want to view multiple files I just use Clipfinder.

I think that because you changed your OS, etc, you might have to recalibrate the system and find the best workflow to use. It will not be the same as it was months ago , but you can probably come up with a good workflow for the current projects.

I use Clipfinder and Color pretty much exclusively in OSXSL because the loupe, QT's and rendered files seem the most accurate when using PR 4444. I rarely use RA or REDCINE at all now because i think clipfinder is a far superior solution UNLESS you have a RedRocket.

David

 

[Todd Gill]

David,

Thanks for the reply. I do use clipfinder and Color in the workflow, and render out .cin. I guess for now I will be rendering out ProRes4x4. I am just frustrated because it seems I am having color management issues every other week regarding Red, Color, and AE. Is Redcine X usefull? I thought it was to be used only with the Red Rocket? I will have to check into that.

Thanks,

Todd

 

[David Battistella]

Todd,

I am trying to stick with this workflow I've been using and it's giving me really great results. I tend to be a person who wants to upgrade to the latest all the time and I am not sure it's always the best way with RED. Their beta is a true beta with lots of things to work out and parts missing.

When I get something that is complete and is working for me then I tend to want to stick with it until there is a definite better solution.
For now I am totally sticking with the mthods outlined here, which works best for me.

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=35308

This gives me a lot of options. I really like having the RED ROOM active in Apple Color because it is nice to have all those extra (red alert) style controls with the Color App. I can't change ISO and exposure on a DPX file, but I can change it on the R3D file. I want to use RED to it's maximum potential so this is why I go this way.

Many people still use DPX, but I feel that giving up the REDcentric control and creating all this additional media that needs to be re-rendered twice is inefficient and defeats the purpose of how the RED workflow was designed, which I believe is a very intelligent workflow when executed properly.

Like all good design. It's simple.

David

 

[ThomtheEditor]

color is also not reading the new color space correctly yet; we're all kinda stuck until a new redcode for color is released with color interpretting things different than every other red app!

 

[Todd Gill]

That's what I am afraid of. Wonder when any changes will come?