Post Editing - cost/time

[MagFi]

I am an indie producer attempting to shoot with red one, but I am not sure if it will be cost effective through the post-production.

So, here's what I am wondering about....

Converting from 4K raw to 2k to edit ? So, I take 2k edit it, and I guess I have two options: 1. convert 2K to 1080/NTSC/PAL to finish (makes sense) 2. take 2k edit index and apply to 4k and then convert (this doesn't sound right).

How much space/time to convert/transfer will I need for 90min feature ? I estimate raw shoot will be about 270~300min.

Not to make anyone mad, but will Sony F35 be any better?

I appreciate your help in advance.

-k

 

[Loren White]

There are several possible workflows.

Do you plan on doing a DI? 2k/4k DCI?

Or finish in 1080/tape?

 

[Greg Huson]

I am an indie producer attempting to shoot with red one, but I am not sure if it will be cost effective through the post-production.

So, here's what I am wondering about....

Converting from 4K raw to 2k to edit ? So, I take 2k edit it, and I guess I have two options: 1. convert 2K to 1080/NTSC/PAL to finish (makes sense) 2. take 2k edit index and apply to 4k and then convert (this doesn't sound right).

How much space/time to convert/transfer will I need for 90min feature ? I estimate raw shoot will be about 270~300min.

Not to make anyone mad, but will Sony F35 be any better?

I appreciate your help in advance.

-k

Talk to your post house about this. They can give you real numbers.

The red work flow is very film-like, without the cost of film and developing, and, in most cases, lab fees lower than traditional telecine.

You shoot a custom version of raw - called R3D. For offline, you 'render' (think one-light telecine) that footage to a format that's more friendly to your editing application- rather than 2k, I would recommend ProRez (final cut) or DNX (avid.) While you can, in theory, cut from proxies of the raw files - that is, sort of, rendering lower rez ON THE FLY, I don't think anyone's working that way for long form. The storage and CPU needs are too demanding.

After you lock your picture using ordinary HD, or even SD video, you use one of several methods to create your final master - think of it as a negative cut and digital intermediate at the same time. With several color grading applications, most especially SCRATCH, you work the original RAW files, add your color correction, and render to your delivery files. With other applications (or 'workflows,) you render an intermediate format, most typically DPX, (think of this as scanning the negative) and follow the rest of the traditional DI route.

As far as storage space and dailies, I'll default to other users to give you a pragmatic/practical experience for any kind of 'exactish' ballpark. For exmaple, we recently finished a 30 minute short that had just under 2 TB of dailies - not very expensive in terms of storage needed. When we worked with the footage for finishing we put it on our large RAID temporarily, but for back/archive/transport to lab/making dailies, you can use low-cost drives (under $100 a terabyte) as long as you make mulitple copies as backup. Hire someone for your set that has experience doing this. The amount of 4k resolution, which you won't be.

If you digital tech or post facility has a RED Rocket card, you'll be able to get dailies on a daily basis (RR is better than 1:1 for conversion in many cases.) If not, figure 8:1 real time for conversion into your editorial format.

I have now worked with F35, but have worked with dailies from Genesis, which is a similar workflow. You're shooting HD to tape - very good HD, very good tape. The camera rental is very expensive, and you'll be capturing or dubbing your dailies from an SR deck. Probably more expensive than running dailies from RED.

There are MANY workflows for RED. Just trying to give you an idea

 

[David Battistella]

There is a real name policy here at REDUSER.

David

 

[Mark Allen]

I have to answer quickly - but just remember the F35 will require some type of data storage too... so if you think about it, there really isn't a savings in data. Probably either way you'll edit with proxy sized files and if you log and transfer you can then use your 4k files for your color correction (with greater bit depth and there for more color options). So, basically, I don't think you'll save anything by going F35, don't confuse yourself into thinking they are too different of workflows.

 

[jimhare]

A few basic points:

1. It all depends on how much you want to do yourself and how long you are willing to take doing it.

2. A Red Rocket could prepare your footage almost in realtime. Buy one or find someone who has one. Great for both dailies and transcoding for editing.

3. You will need quite a few TBs of storage, but that's cheaper than tape these days.

4. There is nothing scary about the post process, especially if you transcode the R3Ds to QuickTime or DPX.

 

[MagFi]

I appreciate all your responses. It make things much more clear. I'll let the pros handle it. Any recommendations for an editor/techie in NYC/NJ will be greatly appreciated.

My original thought was to go to NTSC/DVD for festivals, which I guess is 1080 or BR, unless there are better options.

again, thank you all.

btw - my apologies for missing real name, I've been bombarded with emails in the past when I have used my name. I wanted to avoid that.