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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

MUST SEE, Tech Demo at IBC!

Hey,

Just catching up with this thread now. I saw the IBC Video over at FX Guide and was blown away by the nVidia/Adobe demo. EXACTLY what I've been waiting for.

Is there any news as to when this technology will find its way onto my PPro editing system?!? Is it in the CS4.2 release which is due out within the next few weeks????? It would make sense if it were... the CS4.2 release looks like it's timed to coincide with the release of Windows 7... and Win 7 includes Direct X 11... which includes the general-purpose-GPU API called DirectCompute:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectCompute
 
Luke Stewart said:
I wish I could get excited about this, but compared to AE and Photoshop, Premiere is a turd. Its clunky, slow and buggy, and the new media encoder they force you to use with CS4 sucks. Not to rain on anyone's parade though- if you like using Premiere, more power to you. But I think I've had enough.
Click to expand...

I haven't used Premiere, but if it's interface is worse than AE and Photoshop, I might go blind if I ever do.

Adobe does a lot of cool things, but their UI design is singularly terrible.

That said, I might have to switch to Adobe if this is as cool as it sounds... The aggravation and lost time caused by the lousy UI would probably be made up for by everything being realtime...
 
That's funny because I think FCP and Premiere have extremely similar interfaces...I find it extremely easy to switch between the two because they are indeed so similar....

I also find premiere way more responsive and has better performance than FCP and unlike FCP, premiere is able to work with files natively whether it's r3d, P2 mxf etc.... There is never any of that "re-wrapping to quicktime" required. I have switch to CS4 from FCP because it felt much more robust and has much more to offer in my humble opinion.....and as much as I hate to admit it, CS4 on a PC runs even better and faster...
While media encoder was buggy at first, it has gotten much better with the new updates and actually works pretty good now....At least Adobe is updating adding features to their software on a regular basis...unlike Apple who seems to have forgotten its FCP users and takes forever to give us updates...
 
I also think that Premiere and FCP have very similar interfaces. I took me several days to learn FCP, after being an Adobe Certified Expert in Premiere, and the interface was never a problem. But something went wrong between me and FCP. Simply, I didn't like it, and eventually, we broke up. Part of that is that I generally don't like Mac (Don't get mad at me, I know I'm minority).

I can't say much about Final Cut, but what I know is that Premiere Pro is getting better and better with every release. Don't get me wrong. It still has issues, but After Effects and Photoshop can really compensate for those issues.
Let's just hope that Adobe continues this way, and does not get busy with Flash and internet platforms, like Apple got with I Pods and I Phones.

I just wish if Adobe could release its red plugin a little bit faster. That would be great.
 
Kujtim Ereqi said:
Don't get me wrong. It still has issues, but After Effects and Photoshop can really compensate for those issues.
Click to expand...

You cannot compensate the lack of TC-reading in soundfiles in PP (no TC sound synching) and the useless EDL it produces if we talk about R3Ds with AE or Photoshop. These "minor" bugs disqualify PP for many applications. Here you can see that the "Pro" in Premiere is still a marketing word.

Otherwise there are many things I like about it.

Hans
 
Hans von Sonntag said:
You cannot compensate the lack of TC-reading in soundfiles in PP (no TC sound synching) and the useless EDL it produces if we talk about R3Ds with AE or Photoshop. Hans
Click to expand...

I agree with you. Generally I don't use those features in my workflow, but I know that many professionals do.
On the other hand, I know that After Effects is not the perfect solution for every thing. Color Correction for instance: After Effects can help us achieve very good results, but I really would appreciate an Adobe dedicated "pro" solution. After Effects can do it, but it's not that easy. A dedicated CC program, and the addition of the features you mentioned above, would make Adobe and Premiere a game changer..
 
The future is smooth as butter, fast as hell

The future is smooth as butter, fast as hell

All,

What Obin has been showing as a technology demo is the blazing fast, 64 bit native Mercury playback engine.

It's in our labs now ..... and it's destination is Premiere Pro in "the future" .... can't say when that is, but as teh FXGuide video and Obin's IBC demos show --- we've at least got a version bolted into Premiere Pro and it's a very happy experience. The GPU acceleration in the lab is nVidia CUDA, so ATI GPUs don't show benefits, and won't when we first bring it to market --- nVidia has been awesome to work with on this, kudos to them.

Because it's a new playback engine it works on every format we feed it (the decoding / import is a different part of Premiere Pro ..... so by time it hits the playback engine everything looks the same ... pixels of data).

The bottleneck will move to disk / to decode ...... as Obin notes, on a solid workstation that makes things like RED super-happy .... same thing for P2 .... we've put 7 layers of 720p with lots and lots of effects on the timeline on a Z800 and it's renderless, realtime goodness.

Every laptop we've seen ends up limited by the laptop memory bandwidth .... so we're focusing our work on workstations ...... think FX4800, FX5800, Quadro CX and similar Fermi cards (nVidia just previewed their next gen, codenamed Fermi --- trust me, you'll want one ;-). We'll also support GTX 285 and similar Fermi cards --- they end up limited to 3 or 4 accelerated layers --- more than that and you need a Quadro.

It's an engine for editing --- After Effects has a different engine with different goals ..... so Mercury is just about Premier Pro futures at this point.

Fun, Fun stuff. Wish I could say more .... like product timing but for now .... it's a fabulous glimpse of the future.

Folk like Mark Pedersen and Obin have access to our super-secret experiments ---- and we know that our RED friends often make for great beta testers --- you do cool, challenging work that makes us raise our game. If you want to join the fray shoot me an e-mail ... simon here at Adobe and we can work on seeing whether being part of our pre-release and helping us to make Premiere Pro the perfect tool for your workflows.

Simon
 
Simon,

great to have you here! And before you are off to the next construction site: please implement an EDL "engine" that does abbreviate REEL A001_C001 to A001C001 and not to A001_C00 as it does now, entirely screwing up the meaning of an EDL. And of course, as mentioned above, implementing the ability to read TC in sound files.

Your contestants AVID and FCP can do that for ages.

Thanks in advanced,

Hans

PS: And for my personal delight: I need the Waves VST plugins so badly in a NLE. Premier Pro CAN already display native VST GUIs. The possibility to bypass a dedicated sound tool is a huge advantage making tedious sound reconforming obsolete. Make that working please!

PPS: Love your 32 bit RGB ability, codec support, GUI etc... not to mention the shortcut to AE.
 
Great to see you on those forums Simon!

We love what adobe has done with the R3d Workflow...that by itself made us switch from FCP to Premiere....now if you could only implement support fo the new color theory available in build 20/21 and support for RED Rocket™ soon then that would be FANTASTIC! :thumbup1:
 
Simon,
Thanks for updates....much appreciated!!
Great to know that speed/functionality/stability is being supercharged for future releases.

One last thing Steve. This is a Red forum (the Windows 3.1/ Red Ranch colour pallette gives it away), so we're also focused on picture quality from our Red cameras. Will CS4.2 take advantage of Red's higher quality Redcode v20 files?
D
 
Hayhurst said:
Fun, Fun stuff. Wish I could say more .... like product timing but for now .... it's a fabulous glimpse of the future.

Folk like Mark Pedersen and Obin have access to our super-secret experiments ---- and we know that our RED friends often make for great beta testers --- you do cool, challenging work that makes us raise our game. If you want to join the fray shoot me an e-mail ... simon here at Adobe and we can work on seeing whether being part of our pre-release and helping us to make Premiere Pro the perfect tool for your workflows.

Simon
Click to expand...

LOL! Simon now officially has the Jim Jannard "I'm so excited I can't help but post a little tease" syndrome.

Simon, totally awesome to have you here on Reduser.

Yes ... I can tell you all that I would not have believed it if I didn't see it with my own eyes. Mercury Engine screams 64-bit CUDA hardcore. And there are a few special "goodies" working their way into CS5 that are making me VERY, VERY excited ...
 
Yes, great to see you here – we once talked at IBC, if you remember.

I second the demand for audio TC sync, that's indispensable in particular for RED productions, where audio is quite frequently recorded on a separte device.

Regarding color grading: Color Finesse is a good product, but it lacks integration into AE (or PPro instead?). For serious grading one should be able to set keyframes from within the GUI and one needs a dedicated control device (like Tangent Wave or Euphonix).

With these two problem areas cured (and stability secured), I'd make the switch from FCP to PPro for our whole institute anytime, just like I went from Avid to FCP a few years ago (and never looked back).
 
Hayhurst said:
If you want to join the fray shoot me an e-mail ... simon here at Adobe and we can work on seeing whether being part of our pre-release and helping us to make Premiere Pro the perfect tool for your workflows.

Simon
Click to expand...
Gday from Tokyo Simon!

I'm up for that challenge, have sent you a PM.

Cheers,

Paul
 
Hi Simon, thanks for the update. So no AE integration even in the future ?
 
Lots of good comments here.

On topics like TC, Grading Integration, Red Rocket --- all important stuff .... and we're continuing to knock these kinds of items down one by one. Prioritization of which order to do them in is the hard question ..... Mike Kanfer is our most active Red forum participant and your first port of call for prioritization opinions.

You're all right --- we're so excited about this, and even better 64 bit-ness of the next version of PR & AE (http://provideocoalition.com/index.php/adobe/story/the_future_is_64_bit/) that we're being very open --- but it's also that we believe the best way to serve our customers is to develop with them, not at them .... and the only way to do that is to be open about decisions we're making, and listen hard to our customers as we discuss these things.

Thanks for the ringing endorsements Messirs Obin and Pedersen ..... always nice to see demanding folk happy with the direction and early results.

On the topic of AE and Mercury --- the engine in AE is very different to an NLE engine --- there is inevitably some tech cross-sharing that can be done, but the apps work in very different ways at their core, so much of the core rendering engine needs to be different
 
Simon (or Mike)

Is that a no for Adobe CS4.2 and Redcode v20?

Anyone???

Oh well....looks like Apple's Final Cut Pro produces the better picture and Adobe is going for speed.

Dave
 
That's wonderful news, Simon.

When I first began using premiere pro 1.0, many professionals has lost their faith in Premiere. I had not. I believed that a company like Adobe which has made such wonderful products like After Effects and Photoshop, will find a way to make Premiere deserve the "pro" thing.. I was not wrong..

With version 1.5 and 2.0 my feeling that sticking to Adobe's solutions was a good decision just got stronger, and decided to become an Adobe Certified Expert in Premire. Than came CS3 and 3.1 and 3.2 updates with the wonderful native P2 support; things got better and better. CS4 and the amazing Red workflow just reconfirmed everything. We just need a support for the new science color. I hope it will be in 4.2.

It seems that CS5 will surpass my expectations. I love that.

As other pointed out, Adobe needs to make some movements to consolidate Premiere in the pro market. IMO a color grading solution is one of the most important.
 
Kujtim Ereqi said:
That's wonderful news, Simon.

When I first began using premiere pro 1.0, many professionals has lost their faith in Premiere. I had not. I believed that a company like Adobe which has made such wonderful products like After Effects and Photoshop, will find a way to make Premiere deserve the "pro" thing.. I was not wrong..

With version 1.5 and 2.0 my feeling that sticking to Adobe's solutions was a good decision just got stronger... Than came CS3 and 3.1 and 3.2 updates with the wonderful native P2 support; things got better and better. CS4 and the amazing Red workflow just reconfirmed everything. We just need a support for the new science color. I hope it will be in 4.2.

It seems that CS5 will surpass my expectations. I love that.

As other pointed out, Adobe needs to make some movements to consolidate Premiere in the pro market. IMO a color grading solution is one of the most important.
Click to expand...

Could not agree more. Absolutely spot on. And I applaud Adobe's decision to become more involved in on-line discussions (like this one).

I totally agree about Adobe needing a "pro" colour grading solution. Yes, both PPro and AE have grading tools already and I have graded countless projects in both PPro and AE. But it's SLOW to work with. GPU-accelerated rendering will be a huge, huge, HUGE move forward. The next step would be a decent, one-stop-shop grading interface (like Apple Color / Synthetic Aperture Color Finesse / Magic Bullet Looks) with decent software 'scopes.
 
Bottom line, you can grade in REALTIME in cs5..or will be able to do so soon.

Do you still want the "scratch look" on your final work? for me it's simple, when I have time and money from a client then yes I do. For all other work it's Premiere tweaks with curves etc to get it done.

I think that when the new Red Color Science makes it's way into Adobe things will look vastly different then they do now and I will feel MUCH more comfortable working in Premiere more often for Color work.

BTW 5d files will also play in realtime at full resolution I hear.

good stuff, Premiere is "stepping up" and I think that pretty soon lots of my friends will "see the light" and start to use it. It's come a long way.
 
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