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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Damn you 7D!

7D Movie

7D Movie

How would you define a "hit break out move" and "probably look great" there Zak ?
 
Ellen Kuras shot Personal Velocity with a Sony Vx200 or PD150. She used ultracon filters and the longer end of the lense. She also smoked up a few scenes to lessen contrast. The movie is wonderful, looks great, and is in no way hindered by the format.
 
I'm with the 40% of Americans that have essentially no money and bleak job prospects (thanks outsourcing!). I can't expect a theatrical release for my no-budget movies, so I only need to capture HD quality video. Now, the 7D has come along and is nudging me away from an Epic upgrade. I'm sure rich people, rental houses, established videographers, and exceedingly optimistic people, will continue to go with Red cameras. Meanwhile, the vast bulk of indie projects I think will go with the 7D (or something similar). They might use the entry-level Scarlett, but it's hard to say because of the cost of accessories. Epic brains are just entirely too expensive. I think Red would do well to lower the Epic-X prices, given the new competition in the market (and also to help out the masses who are suffering the effects of a crumbling economy).
 
Mark B. said:
I'm with the 40% of Americans that have essentially no money and bleak job prospects (thanks outsourcing!). I can't expect a theatrical release for my no-budget movies, so I only need to capture HD quality video. Now, the 7D has come along and is nudging me away from an Epic upgrade. I'm sure rich people, rental houses, established videographers, and exceedingly optimistic people, will continue to go with Red cameras. Meanwhile, the vast bulk of indie projects I think will go with the 7D (or something similar). They might use the entry-level Scarlett, but it's hard to say because of the cost of accessories. Epic brains are just entirely too expensive. I think Red would do well to lower the Epic-X prices, given the new competition in the market (and also to help out the masses who are suffering the effects of a crumbling economy).
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You have no money and no job prospects and you think that red should lower their prices to suit you? Red already makes a camera that is way cheaper that anything comparable. The 7d is a great camera for the price but it's no red ( I have both and shoot with both).
The indies are welcome to go with the 7d, if they have a great script and acting then it doesn't matter what they are shot on. Where are all the great indie movies that we were promised when the dvx100/xl1/hvx200/ex1 came out? The camera is not important, it will not make your movie better.
 
Mark B. said:
They might use the entry-level Scarlett, but it's hard to say because of the cost of accessories.
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In which space do you see Scarlet as an "entry level" camera ?

Mark B. said:
Epic brains are just entirely too expensive. I think Red would do well to lower the Epic-X prices, given the new competition in the market (and also to help out the masses who are suffering the effects of a crumbling economy).
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Which competition might that be ?

Epic brains pricing is based on high fps/resolution.
 
Hrvoje Simic said:
In which space do you see Scarlet as an "entry level" camera ?

Which competition might that be ?

Epic brains pricing is based on high fps/resolution.
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The entry-level Scarlett would be whichever Scarlett is sold for the lowest price. For now, it sounds like that will be the fixed-lens version. I could also see indies splurging on the next step up, which would be a Scarlett with inter-changeable lenses. But I don't think they'll be able to justify spending too much more than that. Not when technology rushes forward every year, with better performance at cheaper prices.

The competition right now is the 7D (and 5Dmk2), and soon will be future models of Canon/Nikon digital SLR cameras. There's two sides in the competition, price and performance. Red is obviously taking the performance side. But indies have historically favored the price side, because, as Shane alluded, the camera is not so critically important as everything that goes on in front of it (or behind it). At least, at the indie no-budget level the camera usually ends up secondary. If anyone has expectations for a better release of their film, they'd be crazy to favor the Canon over the Red.

As it is, with all technology, there's a diminishing return when a certain quality level is reached. Right now the Canon 7D is very close to the quality slope without breaking the bank. Red is on the slope, cutting edge, but they are showing it in their price, and perhaps then some. Two years from now, Canon will probably have a 9D or Mk4, and they'll be even more favored for low-budget projects. Red might not want to deal with the no-budget crowd (thinking... they're poor, why sell to them?), but then again, it's such a large number of people that the gravitational force might inevitably influence Red's pricing.
 
charlesN said:
Maybe RED should wake up and release some good news too...sounds like Canon is awake and ready to do battle...Finally.

Go RED Go...!!! Destroy them.
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i agree with you canon is on fight with red. may be planning for cinema camera as red releases the scarlet.because to release a movie in the theaters you need 2k resolution and proper codec , which i am sure canon knows much better than me.

i hope red comes soon.
 
Canon is reacting rather than leading. They are still moving in baby steps with each new model. Very conservative don't rock the corporate boat approach. But they are improving.
 
haha.. yeah.. canon is really scared of red.. lol

:rolleyes:
 
the 1D mark 4 is set to release on oct 20... timed around reds updates
 
MaxAMillion said:
the 1D mark 4 is set to release on oct 20... timed around reds updates
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Announce, not release - release is thought to be January, in time for the Winter Olympics.

David Rasberry said:
Just another DSLR with H.264 consumer movie mode and the same procs as the 7D Blazing 10fps 3 second burst in raw.
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...or so you assume. It's a plausible assumption, but given the ~$5000 1D is very much targeted at pro still photographers it might have no video at all (it's rumored to do 32mp stills, though).

I think the competition with Scarlet will definitely arrive from Canon in the form of an XL-something with a large CMOS sensor. Personally, i'm guessing that they'll be content to let RED have the edge on image quality but encode to a more broadcast-friendly format. We'll find out soon enough.
 
I think the competition with Scarlet will definitely arrive from Canon in the form of an XL-something with a large CMOS sensor. Personally, i'm guessing that they'll be content to let RED have the edge on image quality but encode to a more broadcast-friendly format. We'll find out soon enough.
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I agree. However the new RED's may be more broadcast friendly too with the 1080p mode. At the rate they are progressing, I still think Canon is two years out from full motion raw, if they bother with it at all. In the under $5k video market I have personally liked Canon's XH series better than the other HD offerings. I think they will produce some interesting new camera, at least 2/3" format if not larger. Don't count Panny out either. They may leverage their micro 4/3 format into D-cine models. M4/3 should be the super 16 of digital cine formats.
 
Hello, I am new here, been lurking for awhile. I am a GH1 owner, prospective 7D owner, and hopefully one day soon RED owner. I live in Panama and we just got Che in theaters the other day and watching the filming and reading about the process way pretty amazing.

I just have one question for this thread. How come the 7D gets slammed for poor performance against a RED, and the RED gets slammed for being expensive against a 7D? Aren't they targeted at totally different markets? Pretty close to Apples and Oranges here.

A young guy with less money like me is going to get a 7D over prosumer cams, maybe, but the RED isn't an option, yet. When it becomes such, you bet your #@^ I'll be getting one. RED owners out there might pick up a 7D to play with or because they can take it places easily until the Scarlet comes out, and it's not a huge blow to their budget. But they're not going to be shooting features on it with their RED in the same room.

I guess I just don't see the conflict. Sure it's nice to say how much more a 7D might seem like a RED than say an HMC150 or something, it just doesn't mean a whole lot, in my opinion. But the 7D in no way threatens the RED's target market (I don't think!?) or the mojo of owning a RED. Likewise the RED isn't killing Canon's 7D market share (though I respect that may change with the new waves of cameras.)

Anyhow, cheers to living in such amazing times in the sense that anybody can make a movie on pretty awesome tech these days, and have features and image quality scaled to their budget.
 
The consumer of content could give a rats ass about what widget was used to produce the moving picture. What matters is story,composition and how the person is able to to impart his artistic creativity on the screen and get his message across. In the end everything is just a snapshot in time and space being recorded on some media.

The moment you start getting into pissing contest over hardware is the moment you are beginning to lose sight of what really matters in the end.


There have been enough great works of art done on inexpensive equipment out there.

And enough shit done on very expensive large budgets
 
I guess I just don't see the conflict.
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The consumer of content could give a rats ass about what widget was used to produce the moving picture. What matters is story,composition and how the person is able to to impart his artistic creativity on the screen and get his message across.
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I don't view discussing the technical qualities of these cameras as a conflict or a pissing contest. Just as an attempt to understand the differences and limitations that one faces with ones choice of creative tool. All of these cameras have their place, but they are not universally suitable for any creative project one might wish to tackle.
I would for instance pick a 1/3" prosumer camcorder over any of the vdslr's if I wanted to shoot fast action seqences or needed long recording times for some types of documentary work, as non of them are capable of doing this very well.
 
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