Mic and field recorder prices...

[Brandon Fraley]

I'm trying to help outfit my friend with a production sound package, but I don't really know anything about this stuff.

Can you guys recommend to me a good mic and field recorder (and other devices if needed) and how much those might cost to rent? Also what would be the cheapest combo you'd consider using that we could purchase?

THANKS!

 

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

My friend went with this one: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/404262-REG/Tascam_HD_P2_HD_P2_Portable_Stereo.html

 

[Noah Kadner]

I've used the P2 and I can say it's ok for the price but not the most user friendly nor rugged unit I've ever seen. If you can afford it- the Sound Devices recorders are pretty much the standard and they're worth every penny.

-Noah

 

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

The 702T is an awesome recorder indeed, and with a rock solid construction and I was amazed at how small it is!

However, it's 3x the price of the Tascam P2, a no go for the low budgets (specially with dollar conversion rate + customs over here).

 

[Ivan G]

I just got the Tascam DR-100 and it's sweet!

Check it out and if you have any questions let me know.

 

[Jamon Lewis]

Ivan does the xlr lock into the input on that device?

 

[Ivan G]

I had a chance to play around with it at the store. Didn't pay attention to the xlr jacks. However I'll be getting mine this Friday. Backordered.

 

[Jamon Lewis]

I used a zoom H4 for sound with Sound Devices gear, the sound was was great the only thing was that xlr don't lock, Im confused as to why they wouldn't have it click and lock in like normal female xlr even though it's not a high end recorder... kinda big deal, not good..

 

[Brandon Fraley]

thanks guys.

2 questions...

1: As far as buying things goes, i'd guess our budget is about $600. is there any recorder you would possibly recommend that can be bought for that?

2: If it's gotta be more than $600 we'll have to rent. Can you recommend any places in the Bay Area to rent sound gear? if not, then LA?

THANKS!

 

[Brian Ferguson]

I had a Tascam P2, it is a nice recorder, it has timecode which the DR-100 does not seem to have. Timecode seems like a deal breaker for dialogue recording to me. The P2 has something in common with the DR-100 it seems, the XLR only work for mic inputs line level is via RCA jacks on the P2 and mini plugs on the DR-100. The TC on the P2 is difficult to set-up and the menu screen is pretty low resolution. The level controls on both the Tascams are toGEther and concentric like a ring within a ring for each channel not the easiest to control. The Oade Bros. do some great mods on these lower price recorders http://www.oade.com/ I think this web site was originally aimed at people making concert bootleg recordings. The mic pre-amps in these recorders are upgraded with the mods.

That is an advantage with the Sound Devices that they use XLR for line and mic. The 702T is their lowest cost recorder with TC and it is $2500 it uses CF cards for the media. Also take in consideration that with SD products you can choose phantom per channel and many low priced mixers and recorders make a global phantom setting applied to all mic inputs, one switch you are either all on or off. The SD recorders are all using the same mic preamps as their mixers. If you needed more mic inputs you could add a mixer to the kit or go for a recorder with more channels and more money.

Microphone choices are all dependent on what the situation is, there is no one size fits all. Prices for decent mics are $250-$2500, the choice of a mic for everyday use for location recording is usually at least a set of wireless lavs and a decent short shotgun mic for camera mounting and boom work.

 

[Rob Castiglione]

A very good and low cost shot gun microphone is the Rode series. Even their cheapest one is very good.

 

[Hans von Sonntag]

This is a basic stereo sound-kit on budget we put together for daily use that covers most situations one finds with docs, commercials and small features:

- SD 702T (you want to slave the Red's TC by the SD)

- Ambient Emesser in conjuction with Schoeps MK42 for MS-stereo

- decent boom and dead cat

- two Sennheiser G3 radio link kits

- two Sound Voice lavalier mics (we don't use the lavs. in the Sennheiser kit)

- cables, headphones, etc...

Altogether 6.500k. You can safe money by substituting the Schoeps with an Octava for instance. While Octavas are surprisingly good for their price Schoeps and Neumann are still the "real" thing. Haven't heard the sound of a Rode yet but all I hear is that they are good value for the money.

Saving money anywhere else doesn't make much sense. In the end you would find your sound-kit unsatisfying. This is the reason why we rented all the time. But recently I figured out that within 1 1/2 year we would reach the ROI and bought one now.

Hans

 

[Rob Castiglione]

Hi Hans,

I have used the emesser and have to say that I was not all that impressed with it. I do not think that there are any short cuts when it comes to figure of eight mics - either the Schoeps or the Sennheiser. However, I appreciate that they are expensive.

Another option is to buy a Pearl Mid Side mic which is a single mic set up and again high quality.

 

[Tom Visser]

thanks guys.

2 questions...

1: As far as buying things goes, i'd guess our budget is about $600. is there any recorder you would possibly recommend that can be bought for that?

2: If it's gotta be more than $600 we'll have to rent. Can you recommend any places in the Bay Area to rent sound gear? if not, then LA?

THANKS!

At that budget, you should rent or hire a sound crewman who will bring his own gear. Do you absolutely need a recorder? Although you hear me espouse the benefits of double system audio and some of the pitfalls of the RED camera audio, the recorders are expensive and add lots of complexity to the workflow when not done correctly and with the necessary provisions. The RED camera is capable of great on board sound when it is done correctly. If you can fit it in your budget, great, rent a 788t or 744t, 416, a couple of Lectro wireless units, and the appropriate accessory equipment. A more budget friendly package might be a 302, NTG-3, pair of G2/G3 systems, accessories, and plan on recording direct to the camera (with updated audio boards).

Although not released yet, the new Sound Devices 552 is on my radar as the next piece of equipment that should be on every low-budget production's purchase list. It is a 5 channel mixer with 2 track recording capability to SD/SDHC cards @ $2895. The 702t is of course cheaper and its limitation to 2 inputs can either be augmented by an external mixer or great for those productions that only need 1 or 2 channels to begin with. Nagra is also working on a timecode capable version of the LB recorder. The LB is not as popular as the 702, but at $3000, it could be a viable option for some and is a pretty cool alternative to the SD lineup.

 

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

thanks guys.

2 questions...

1: As far as buying things goes, i'd guess our budget is about $600. is there any recorder you would possibly recommend that can be bought for that?

2: If it's gotta be more than $600 we'll have to rent. Can you recommend any places in the Bay Area to rent sound gear? if not, then LA?

THANKS!

$600-ish recorders:

- Fostex FR2 LE

- Marantz PMD 661

A very good and low cost shot gun microphone is the Rode series. Even their cheapest one is very good.

Not sure I agree. The AT897 sounds more natural to me than the NTG-1/2 let's say.

The NTG-1/2 sounds very boxy and not natural at all.

If I have good pre-amps I would prefer the low output AT-897 instead of the NTGs.

The NTG-3 is awesome though.

 

[Hans von Sonntag]

Hi Hans,

I have used the emesser and have to say that I was not all that impressed with it. I do not think that there are any short cuts when it comes to figure of eight mics - either the Schoeps or the Sennheiser.

The Emesser is not a substitute of a complex mic setup but a neat solution for MS-Stereo using already existent mics such as a Schoeps hyperchardioid for instance. The beauty is that you can "switch" off the sides in the NLE and use only the middle utilizing the fine Schoeps if stereo is not wanted.

However, I appreciate that they are expensive.

Sarcasm?

Another option is to buy a Pearl Mid Side mic which is a single mic set up and again high quality.

Yes. But it's not usable AFAIK like a single Schoeps/Neumann hyperchardioid in mono mode and you want that for dialogue.


Hans

 

[Alex.Mitchell]

I don't know if this'll be much help, but I wouldn't recommend the 702T. Not like it's a bad recorder or anything–far from it–but I think that 4 track is really important for quality audio recording, even if you're only providing three ISO channels and a mix track. Even if you have to rent it until you can buy it, the 744T is your best bet.

 

[Tom Visser]

I don't know if this'll be much help, but I wouldn't recommend the 702T. Not like it's a bad recorder or anything–far from it–but I think that 4 track is really important for quality audio recording, even if you're only providing three ISO channels and a mix track. Even if you have to rent it until you can buy it, the 744T is your best bet.

On that same note, the 744t is a little bit of an odd duck in that you could deliver a mono mix and 3 iso, but if you need to deliver a stereo mix, 2 iso + a mix is a little bit odd and not very capable of more complex setups. I'd start considering iso capabity once the channel count is 6 or more... unless your going to do that, I'd probably just focus on getting a really good stereo mix, where the 702t or new 552 would really excel.

Never deliver an iso+mix that is more than 8 tracks, so I fail to see the utility of some of the larger recorders that can deliver 10+ track counts.

 

[Hans von Sonntag]

I don't know if this'll be much help, but I wouldn't recommend the 702T. Not like it's a bad recorder or anything–far from it–but I think that 4 track is really important for quality audio recording, even if you're only providing three ISO channels and a mix track. Even if you have to rent it until you can buy it, the 744T is your best bet.

The reason why I went with the 702T are:

- 1,500 EUR cheaper than the 744T

- the power consumption is much less (ok, you can pull the HD of the 744T but still...)

- the 744T has two mic/line and two line only inputs - why...? For recording more than 2 channels it requires an additional mixer. This makes my goal of a lightweight unit obsolete.

- if needed I can rent a 788T any time from a friend in my neighborhood.


Hans

 

[Hans von Sonntag]

... where the 702t or new 552 would really excel.

Unfortunately the 552 has no TC-out. You cannot slave a RedOne for instance which is mandatory for my workflow.

Hans