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RED Performance in Cold Climates

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Murray Fredericks

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Hi All,

I am considering buying into the RED Platform for an upcoming shoot. The shoot is in an extremely cold environment and the ambient temperature will be around minus 15 c. The shoot is for over a month and the camera will be stored at that temperature.

Given the official specs for operating temps are down to Zero c, I am worried, but I also know that much of my other gear is rated to around the sme yet works well at much lower temps as long as the batteries can be warmed up...

Has anyone got real world experience to share in this regard?

Cheers

Murray
 
RED One in the cold.

RED One in the cold.

Hesitant to post negative but must be honest.
Our camera can take up to 20 minutes to warm up enough to start up on a cold (5 degrees C) morning. I let RED know of this when I sent in for upgrade programme and they said they had fixed it but it still happens.
Unsure if this is a problem with just us or others as well.
Our work-around it to keep camera at room temperature as much as poss and get it started as soon as possible in the morning to warm it up.
Not ideal.
Should send it back again but no time in schedule at the moment.
 
Steve Thomson said:
Our camera can take up to 20 minutes to warm up enough to start up on a cold (5 degrees C) morning.
Click to expand...

Last winter I used Red One in rather cold conditions from -20 to -30C and did not have any problems with the LCD. The EVF is a problem already near/below 0C. A nice thing in the winter is that the batteries last longer simply because the camera stays cooler.

If the camera does not boot up properly, it sounds like the batteries are cold and not able to give enough power. Lithium batteries should be kept warm. Otherwise problems arises.
 
Lauri Kettunen said:
Last winter I used Red One in rather cold conditions from -20 to -30C and did not have any problems with the LCD. The EVF is a problem already near/below 0C. A nice thing in the winter is that the batteries last longer simply because the camera stays cooler.

If the camera does not boot up properly, it sounds like the batteries are cold and not able to give enough power. Lithium batteries should be kept warm. Otherwise problems arises.
Click to expand...

Given that the ambient temp the camera will be stored in for 5 weeks will be around -15, is just keeping the batteries in a warm container enough?

Maybe strapping handwarmers to the batteries will keep it going?

I guess long timelapse sequences in that environment will be a stretch? Might have to stick with a 5Dmark2 for that work...

Murray
 
Murray Fredericks said:
Given that the ambient temp the camera will be stored in for 5 weeks will be around -15, is just keeping the batteries in a warm container enough?

Maybe strapping handwarmers to the batteries will keep it going?
Click to expand...

Yes, in my experience the camera, Red drives, and LCD are ok in cold. But, it's a wellknown fact that Li-batteries do not function properly in cold. This is not an issue of Red batteries but something which has to do with all LI-batteries.

Handwarmers are ok and helpful in warming up the batteries. I use myself the belt clip battery plate and keep the batteries under my clothes. When moving around, pack the batteries within my sleeping bag.

For such a long time in cold, I would recommend to use a small generator. I have myself one of these small Honda generator (aggregator) to get power or heat in remote locations. An alternative are these small petrol heaters.
 
Lauri Kettunen said:
This is not an issue of Red batteries but something which has to do with all LI-batteries.


For such a long time in cold, I would recommend to use a small generator. I have myself one of these small Honda generator (aggregator) to get power or heat in remote locations. An alternative are these small petrol heaters.
Click to expand...

Thanks Lauri,

Yes I will be using both a small Honda generator and a petrol heater, however, I am going in by helicopter and there will be no resupply so everything has to be rationed including fuel.

I am glad the sticking point with the cold seems to be the batteries - that put's it in the same boat as my other gear and makes using a RED a possibility...

Cheers

Murray
 
Cold Weather performance.

Cold Weather performance.

Agreed.

Keep your batteries warm and shield the EVF or LCD from the wind.

All three of these devices have components that can be affected by cold - its a chemistry thing...

But if you can follow these precautions you should be fine..
 
I've shot with my RED down to -20F / -28C. Shot to CF card and no troubles, I do not recommend spinning up a frozen hard drive or operating drives at very cold temperatures.

Batteries will freeze if it's cold enough -15C may be cold enough, not sure, but definitely take precautions to keep them warm when you can. Your LCD should be OK at that temperature, but once again be prepared. When at -28C, I had to use a hand-warmer on the back of the LCD to keep it mostly operational and if there were any wind chill to deal with, that probably wouldn't have been enough since I was heating it from the rear and the display panel itself is the part that has trouble.

I don't recommend using the EVF at sub-freezing temperatures unless you can get it warmed up before powering it on and you have a way to keep it warm. Same with the RED Drives. CF and RED RAM will be fine.

At the super cold temps, lenses become a factor too. Our RED 18-50 and Cooke zoom both performed fine, but they did tighten up noticeably. A set of Zeiss standards I rented didn't do so well. The lube froze up hard making the focus gears so tight they were virtually unusable. I left them in the case as I felt it best to not force them to work and risk any damage.

Always be mindful of the physical aspects of your camera gear and extreme temperature changes. Aluminum loves to expand and contract. Make sure all your rod clamps are loosened before allowing camera gear to warm up from freezing temps to common room temperatures. Watch out for condensation and not just when entering back into a warm environment, but as the camera powers off out in the cold, it's warm inside the camera and the surroundings are freezing. Before powering off the camera for good for the night, I recommend running idle for a bit, maybe set the fan on full do really cool it off. Perhaps this is overkill, but I haven't really tested this aspect much.

I have found the RED to be no more ore less reliable in extreme cold than any other camera equipment. I've lost tape mechanisms on both Canon and Sony cameras in extreme cold. I've had laptop screens freeze solid only to have the LCD cells rupture and bleed when thawed out, leaving me with thousands of dead pixels... The flip-out LCD on my DVX and HVX cameras would stop working at about -5F/-15C. I ended up using a lot of black garbage bags as thermal tents for the cameras and it's a good trick. even the clear ones work great -- arguably better than the black ones on a sunny day. Just watch out for condensation under those bags!!!
 
As I said, my camera has something that needs addressing.
This morning in New Zealand it was 11 degress C. Hardly freezing. The camera and batteries were kept inside overnight.
At first power up it hung whirring on the "booting..." display
After 5 minutes it started up.
Anyone else had this happen?
 
Steve Thomson said:
As I said, my camera has something that needs addressing.
This morning in New Zealand it was 11 degress C. Hardly freezing. The camera and batteries were kept inside overnight.
At first power up it hung whirring on the "booting..." display
After 5 minutes it started up.
Anyone else had this happen?
Click to expand...

Steve, in such case I would suspect 1) battery 2) cable of the battery plate 3) connection between battery and battery plate. Another useful information is, which build you have in the camera and also, what else do you have connected to the camera while the camera boots up?
 
Just a thought: http://www.gerbing.com is a company that sells electrically heated clothing for motorcycling in cold weather. A vest is about $150 and the cord can be converted to 12v rather easily if you don't want to run off of batteries. It might come in handy in a frigid environment for keeping a camera and/or its operator warm. Though I haven't tried using one for keeping a Red camera warm, mine worked wonderfully during http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/rideanddest/new_york_crotona_midnight_run/index.html.

YMMV...Good luck.
 
Murray Fredericks said:
Hi All,

I am considering buying into the RED Platform for an upcoming shoot. The shoot is in an extremely cold environment and the ambient temperature will be around minus 15 c. The shoot is for over a month and the camera will be stored at that temperature.

Given the official specs for operating temps are down to Zero c, I am worried, but I also know that much of my other gear is rated to around the sme yet works well at much lower temps as long as the batteries can be warmed up...

Has anyone got real world experience to share in this regard?

Cheers

Murray
Click to expand...

I had no trouble last winter shooting at -22 c shooting steam coming off Lake Okanagan last winter.
 
I did a feature about 6 months back in Aspen, Colorado at an Altitude of 12,000ft.

I highly recommend assembling everything inside and allowing the camera about 10-15 minutes warm-up. Plug in all connections before going outside as LEMO pins are made of copper and will recess if not plugged in.

Items I recommend you have close or on standby

Handwarmers
Hair-dryer
Harrison Camera Cover (the BIG one)
Nylon Lens Wraps (cover for the batteries and EVF)
Small Bungie Cord

I did at the time have a prototype neoprene camera cover made by Mike Burton and Eric Espera (formerly with Silverado Systems). They might have a newer version for you to use.

All in All, I had no issues with the Red-Drive (HDD) but I recommend using CF cards. I did not have the RedRams at the time so I can't speak on the use of those. All Red Camera's were from Keslow Camera in Culver City.

Goodluck,
 
Dane Brehm said:
I highly recommend assembling everything inside and allowing the camera about 10-15 minutes warm-up. Plug in all connections before going outside as LEMO pins are made of copper and will recess if not plugged in.
Click to expand...

Dane has put his finger on what I have found issues with.
When it is cold I need to let the camera warm up for 15 minutes.
I know the camera wasn't designed as a ENG camera but there are definitely times when you see something amazing and want to start shooting quickly without having to wait around - and without having to have had the camera turned on the whole while you wait for the magic.....
 
Lauri Kettunen said:
Steve, in such case I would suspect 1) battery 2) cable of the battery plate 3) connection between battery and battery plate. Another useful information is, which build you have in the camera and also, what else do you have connected to the camera while the camera boots up?
Click to expand...

Hi Lauri,

Battery Plate and cable were sent back during upgrade and checked by RED.
Copper bushes in battery themselves have been replaced as vibration during vehicle POV ruined connection.
This issue has happened on every build. We are now on 21.
I now plug in the battery and turn the camera on while I add everything else (drive, viewfinder etc) as every minute counts often.....
 
Did I hear -15 C? Thats not cold, LOL.

Here is a pic, was out all day, no problem at -22 C.
 

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I did a shoot last year that was outside mid-december at around -10c. With the wind chill, it was -20c. We used pressure bandages and a series of glove/boot warmers, and everything worked great.

1 Boot warmer taped to the back of the LCD
2 across the top of the camera
1 on either side of the camera
1 On the back of the battery
1 between the Red Drive and the Cradle (tight fit)

Prior to this we had trouble starting up, and once it did, trouble recording to the drive. After applying the warmers, no trouble at all.
 
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