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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

IBC '09? There's a new Canon camera to be announced soon (Canon source)

They think they have the technology, that is all. They don't really realize the whole thing.
 
Emanuel A. said:
Ciao Ketch!

Generally speaking, I agree with you. Don't shoot the messenger ;-) Thanks Jim K. for your care, anyway.
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Hehe, Emanuel, I would never shot the messenger, and especially you as I like you too much :)

Nonetheless Canon, has been nothing but too little too late for to many times, and done the wrong thing one too many times for my likings, and finally lost my loyalty which they had for over two decades, in which I turn literally hundreds and hundreds of shooters, in to Canon shooters.

Unfortunately for them such era is over, and they will soon understand how it happen but little they will do that can change that, and words of Epic, and what they will do to target Scarlet, to me and my amble understanding of how their company has acted and it is acting towards its loyal customers, and what they are after, leads me to believe that they are very far from being a formidable competition to RED in their Scarlet line.

This it is what I see, and unless a truly EPIC change happens in their politics of things, they can dream about been as close to what RED is doing and will continue to do.

I fully lost complete trust in Canon, they literally BS the S$#@! out of every one, and fooled a trend totally against their customers, releasing one model after the other, crushing the interest of their customers, making their brand new models obsolete while still new, doing so one model after the other, and their last shot at this is the 7D against the 5D II.

Any way in off ranting, I'm over them, and I have nothing left to remind me of them, its RED time for me :)

We are all good Emanuel, just wanted to vent out a bit :)
 
Scarlet 2/3" threats the Canon broadcast lenses, for example.
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I don't know why this would threaten their HD lens business. Scarlet will need good zooms and Canon makes some excellent B4 and S16mm glass that will work great on the 2/3" model.
 
If they were really interested in changing, I think they'd have pulled a Red card, and done a credit trade-in, same as Red.

If they were really interested in doing their customers right, they'd have given them trade in credit for the 7.
 
David Rasberry said:
I don't know why this would threaten their HD lens business. Scarlet will need good zooms and Canon makes some excellent B4 and S16mm glass that will work great on the 2/3" model.
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a $2000 camera and an $80,000 lens? I don't think this will fly :hand:
 
Neil Stubbings said:
Pawel, why is this on a 50D?
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The image circle is matched to the sensor size and the 50D is arguably the best still picture camera with approximately S35 sensor. Also, the camera must have Live View because, after the modification, it is not DSLR anymore.:smash: So, not much choice.
 
7D will be perfect for chopping and fitting MPs to.

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The highly interesting issue is that Canon gives the signal they take Red very seriously and between the lines get the impression they feel it's a potential threat. Taking into account that the mass would have thought this is possible say 30 months ago, this is quite an achievement from Red and Jim in such a short time.

Personally, I'm not so sure about the efficiency of the Canon worldwide sales network. In the end of the day, it's the customers who pay for it. Besides, have got much or should I say far better or non-camparable response on technical issues from this forum than what is the (non-existing) feedback from Canon.

For instance, at the time of XL H1 I tried to find out the exact meaning of the entries of a so called color matrix. That is, there's a 3x3 matrix which multiplies the input (R,G,B)-vector to get an output vector (r,g,b). The non-diagonal entries were called something like RG, RB, GR, and so on, but nobody representing Canon was able to tell which one is which --i.e., whether RG is entry [1,2] or [2,1] etc. Or in other words, to make the best use of such a feature one needs to know which label refers to the rows and which one to the columns. This speficies the input-output direction.

This was a ridicilous situation. There's a trivial matrix-vector multiplication and nobody was able to provide a user with an answer. Eventually asked myself what is the point to introduce such a feature in the camera, if the manuals, documents on the web, and all Canon representatives fail in providing a simple answer for such a trivial question.

To give a comparable example with RED, I wanted to know in which order the functions and filters are coded in Redcine and the Adobe plug-in. Sent an email to Stuart, he replied I should ask Deanan, who replied the same day and answered all questions in depth. In addition, suggested Deanan a helpful feature into Redcine which he recognized and replied they will look at it. Or, in July while being at a very remote location discovered my belt clip battery plate did not function properly. Sent an email from my mobile phone to Kelly and Brent, and only two and half days later FedEx brought a new one. And the old one was fixed for free in UK, as Brent pointed out to me it was under warranty.

Of course, if larger masses buy Scarlet 2/3 version, then then situation might become different. In such a case Kelly, Brent, Deanan and Stuart can't serve everybody the same way. On the other hand if a large amount of people buy Scarlet, then Jim can invest more resources on the customer service. The bottom line is, in my experience RED business model is far the best, on it's own class, among those I've seen so far.
 
Canon have played in the niche market before. They used to make a set of cine fixed focal length lenses the K series and as we know still produce 2/3" HD lenses. As a vertically integrated company maufacturing pretty much everything themselves they may well target the same client as Red.
Lets also not forget Sony, Panasonic and Arri are not out of it yet expect these companies to have new offerings and in Arri case the high end professionals will immediately slot-in to there complete assistant friendly system.
Red One certainly lit a fire.
 
KETCH ROSSI said:
releasing one model after the other, crushing the interest of their customers, making their brand new models obsolete while still new,
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e.g. hv20, hv30, hv40...all the same camera, just minor changes that don't make any difference...
 
Tell me Canon is going truly modular and then I'll believe that they are not afraid.

Now, of course by afraid I don't mean "losing their shit". They will sell thousands of cameras with Red in the market even if Jim pulls a few more Oakley moves or whatever he did to achieve such success. But Red will suck up some of the money they would have otherwise gotten, and it should be a nice chunk by the time the second generation is out because Jim knows he needs to get this generation to a development point where pros can't knock it down for even minor design short comings. He needs the word of mouth and that is what will bring it.

What is Canon putting out then that deserves this sort of attachment to Red? Is it a CMOS video camera? What are they going to do? Grab their pro controls, features, and form factor, but put a 7D inside? Throw in a third chip? Fourth? Give us the best H.264 possible? Something better? That would be very interesting.

However, there will still be no Red Code, it will still not be modular, and there will still be no firmware updates (other than those necessary to avoid embarrassment and/or cover major mess ups that could ruin a product's sale numbers!).

I am more interested in the possibility of an actual "8D".

I completely believe that Canon could have delivered something "pro enough" in the DLSR flavor already. If only they had decided and understood that they should have done that. It is probably too late now. Scarlet and Epic are around the corner and there is no way Canon can answer to that in time to piss on their parade.

Moreover, I don't believe that Canon can, or wants, to become Red.

A modular design where even the Sensor+Brain can be upgraded is simply not something Canon will do... period. It won't make them as much money as the "machine" demands. They are not a boat under the command of a rogue captain like Red, but a soul-less corporation (as far as I know and I know very little about them).

Red will not only sell to pros, but also sell 2/3' Scarlets and the like to film students, and to passionate and/or wealthy aficionados. Even if an "8D" comes out with fantastic pro recording capabilities and all the manual control you could hope for. Red will still sell to those guys because they will know that with Red you will be able to buy what you need, and BUILD! Not just lens kits! And you will also be able to UPGRADE! Neat words.

Just to clarify, I am a Red Fanboy! And darn proud of it, because (with all due respect) it means I am not sheep. Now, that statement is a bit of a stretch, I know, in both directions. However, it will gain much more literal meaning once the second (and last?!?!) generation of Red cameras come out... :)
 
Pawel Achtel said:
a $2000 camera and an $80,000 lens? I don't think this will fly :hand:
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No but a (realistically) $4000 cam and $16k-18k lens like the 6.6-66 S16 model, or any of their ENG/EFP B4 models starting around $7k makes perfectly good sense. If you bought something like a Panasonic 3700 at $30k and put a $30k lens on it, why would you not put that same $30k lens on a $4k camera that can potentially out perform it?

PS: This is an odd statement from a lens hound like you Pawel. Master Primes on a sub $2k Canon?:biggrinjester:
 
I think Pawel was saying it might not fly with most people. :biggrin:

He caught some flack on the forum a couple months ago for suggesting that a $90K (?) lens was the best solution for the 2/3" Scarlet. If a 90K lens is the best solution for an F900, then why not a Scarlet?
 
Ha. Two years ago we were a scam and now "Canon is not afraid of us." Sounds like we have come a long way in a short period of time.

I'm very happy that RED has in any small way helped Canon to "see the light". We welcome anything they bring to the market that is good for the industry. Now... get rid of H.264.

We have a stable of unannounced features. Glad we started to clam up recently.

Jim
 
LMAO, right on, Jim. All of these new cameras, IMO, are a damn-near direct result of what you have done. They would still be asking us to buy shitty 1/3" (or worse) HD cameras if someone hadn't come along and stuck a hot poker in their ribs.
 
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