Expected DOF on Scarlet 2/3" & Other Questions

[Jon Chema]

Hey guys please excuse me if this question has already been asked... I am new to the forum and simply looking for answers...

Ok, so basically I am looking to purchase the Scarlet 2/3" version when it comes out. From what I understand for the price, it is going to blow most cameras out of the water in terms of image quality. ie.) Sony EX3 (that uses at 2/3 as well) costs $7k+. Anyways, my question is with the fixed 8x lens, what kind of DOF can I expect to get. Obviously its not going to be as shallow as the S35 of FF35 brain as the sensor is larger...but will I get a shallow enough DOF so that its at least noticeable? Or would it be better to purchase the 2/3" brain for $2.5k and buy a lens mount for the Nikon lenses that I have for my D40X DSLR? Does the Scarlet offer any audio inputs? I would expect that it at least would have 2-4 mini XLRs like the RED ONE does.

Thanks guys in advance for your help!

J

 

[Shane Kelly]

It'll have the same depth of field as any other 2/3" chip at the same f-stop.

 

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

Isn't Sony EX3 a 1/2" chip camera?

With wide angles at 10mm, normals at 20mm and teles at 40mm you can have a pretty good idea of DOF on 2/3" Scarlet at various f-stops.

 

[Chris Kennedy]

Isn't Sony EX3 a 1/2" chip camera?

With wide angles at 10mm, normals at 20mm and teles at 40mm you can have a pretty good idea of DOF on 2/3" Scarlet at various f-stops.

Yes it's a 1/2".


Expect to get about the same amount of DOF as 16mm lenses. For me at least 2/3" is enough DOF for me, because I mainly run & gun. A lot easier to shoot and pull focus.

Still cameras like the F900, viper, panasonic 3700 are 2/3" just for literally a fraction of the cost.

 

[Russ Blaise]

Isn't Sony EX3 a 1/2" chip camera?

Yes, 3-Chip 1/2 inch type Exmor CMOS.

 

[Jon Chema]

Typo

Typo

Isn't Sony EX3 a 1/2" chip camera?

My mistake. Could have sworn the EX cams were 2/3. Regardless, it still makes the RED even more impressive as the sensor in this $3.5k camera is larger than the one in the $7k Sony.

 

[Stephen Gentle]

Slumdog Millionare, Starwars Episodes 2 and 3, Benjamin Button, and many other films have been shot on 2/3" sensors (and at lower resolutions than Scarlet!), so you can expect it to be able to achieve similar DOF to those films. The lens might have a slightly higher F-stop than the ones they used in those films though, which would make it a little deeper, but it should still give you a good ballpark estimation.

 

[Jon Chema]

Expect to get about the same amount of DOF as 16mm lenses. For me at least 2/3" is enough DOF for me, because I mainly run & gun. A lot easier to shoot and pull focus.

Could a shallower DOF be achieved by buying the "Brain" version of the Scarlet for $2.5k and then buying a prime for it? Also, do you guys have any idea how much a Nikon mount would cost for the Scarlet?

J

 

[Jon Chema]

Slumdog Millionare, Starwars Episodes 2 and 3, Benjamin Button, and many other films have been shot on 2/3" sensors (and at lower resolutions than Scarlet!), so you can expect it to be able to achieve similar DOF to those films. The lens might have a slightly higher F-stop than the ones they used in those films though, which would make it a little deeper, but it should still give you a good ballpark estimation.

Very cool. If using primes, could I get away with buying only 1 lens, or would there be good reason to purchase multiple lenses in different mm. Your talking to a guy that has shot with fixed lenses cams his whole life with the exception of still photography. (I have a 3 different lenses for my DSLR). I mainly shoot Shorts if that makes a difference.

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

Could a shallower DOF be achieved by buying the "Brain" version of the Scarlet for $2.5k and then buying a prime for it? Also, do you guys have any idea how much a Nikon mount would cost for the Scarlet?

J

We really don't know, but based on early stuff from Red Garage, and mention of a new "fly-by-wire" zoom, its looks like its going to be stunning for the price.

As for a Nikon mount, right now for Red One it's $500. I cant imagine it being more than that... and most likely less.

 

[Shane Kelly]

Could a shallower DOF be achieved by buying the "Brain" version of the Scarlet for $2.5k and then buying a prime for it? Also, do you guys have any idea how much a Nikon mount would cost for the Scarlet?

J

In theory, yes. But you're not going to have a working camera for $2.5 - just a brain. If you are talking about using nikons on that 2/3" brain, then it's going to be expensive to find lenses that are fast enough and wide enough for a 2/3" sensor. A 50mm/1.4 say, is going to be a telephoto.
The mini red primes or super16 superspeeds would be the way to go.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

You won't gain any enhanced shallow DOF by choosing a different prime lens, with the exception of using some of the really "fast" ones like the Nikon F1.4 primes. Another thing to consider with the 2/3" Scarlet, is if you are using 35mm glass like Nikon primes, they are relatively long focal lengths for a 2/3" (~16mm) sensor. DOF, or the shallowness of it, is determined by the aperture size and focal length of the lens. The perception of DOF changes with sensor size based on subject framing and focal lengths used to get the desired framing. In general, to achieve the same DOF as you would get on an S35 camera, you would open up the aperture by about two stops when shooting on a 16mm or 2/3" camera.

RED also has not announced any specs on the glass in the fixed lens Scarlet... But if the lens is T2.8 and you shoot it wide open, you would get roughly the same shallow DOF as shooting an S35 camera with the aperture set to T5.6. Of course this still isn't taking into account focal length and framing considerations.

For the 2/3" Scarlet, if you want the interchangeable lens model, you will want to seriously consider appropriate lenses. Like the upcoming RED mini primes or existing C-Mount glass or PL-mount S16 glass. In consideration of this, and lenses you already own, you may actually buy into a complete camera package cheaper or easier with the S35 Scarlet. Or at least this could be the case for someone who already has a decent SLR lens collection and the larger sensor would be more appropriate for the lenses they already have.

 

[Jon Chema]

You won't gain any enhanced shallow DOF by choosing a different prime lens, with the exception of using some of the really "fast" ones like the Nikon F1.4 primes.

Jeff, what is meant by the term "Fast" when speaking about lenses? I apologize if that is a stupid question but i've never heard it termed with that phrase. Would a Nikon 50mm F1.8 prime be considered a "fast" lens?

I'm sure the fixed lenses will serve the purpose that I need it to in terms of DOF. How much would a set of primes like you mentioned run? I'm only looking to spend about $4k initially on the unit. Obviously down the road, I can always upgrade and buy more... Also, do you think they will include a rail system with the camera?

 

[Justin O'Neill]

Jeff, what is meant by the term "Fast" when speaking about lenses? I apologize if that is a stupid question but i've never heard it termed with that phrase. Would a Nikon 50mm F1.8 prime be considered a "fast" lens?

I suppose it's subjective but I would consider anything under f2.1 a fast lens.

 

[M. Reilly]

Jeff, what is meant by the term "Fast" when speaking about lenses? I apologize if that is a stupid question but i've never heard it termed with that phrase. Would a Nikon 50mm F1.8 prime be considered a "fast" lens?

A "fast" lens is essentially a lens with a wide aperture (a numerically low f-stop). It's called fast because it allows enough light in for a fast shutter speed.

A 50mm f1.8 is fast, but they do make faster. Also, prime lenses are typically a lot faster than zoom lenses.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Yeah, what these other guys said... How "fast" a lens is or what "speed" it is refers to the T-stop or amount of light it lets through. Also keep in mind that F-stop indicates the physical size of the aperture in relation to the focal length. T-stop represents how much light is transmitted at a given aperture setting.

 

[Russ Blaise]

So maybe a still camera lens with an f-stop of 2.0, might have a different effect in relations to DOF, than a movie camera lens with an T-stop of 2.0???

 

[Robert Jackson]

Could a shallower DOF be achieved by buying the "Brain" version of the Scarlet for $2.5k and then buying a prime for it?
J

The Red mini primes sound ideal, but I'll bet you're going to end up having to buy them as a set.

 

[Jon Chema]

Of what quality do you guys think the fixed 8x lens will be? In your honest opinions...for the money do you feel its worth going with the 8x fixed or buying a set of primes. I'm really only looking to spend about $5k total on the Scarlet, Redrock Micro shoulder mount, and other accessories.... Obviously a set of primes is out of my budget if its gonna cost $4k extra. Down the road, possibly buying a new brain may be an option for me and then i could get primes but as of right now the fixed zoom model is looking awefully tempting.

 

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

Of what quality do you guys think the fixed 8x lens will be? In your honest opinions...for the money do you feel its worth going with the 8x fixed or buying a set of primes. I'm really only looking to spend about $5k total on the Scarlet, Redrock Micro shoulder mount, and other accessories.... Obviously a set of primes is out of my budget if its gonna cost $4k extra. Down the road, possibly buying a new brain may be an option for me and then i could get primes but as of right now the fixed zoom model is looking awefully tempting.

Better than any other fixed lens offered by any other company in the world so far by the cheapest price.

Basically that comment applies to everything RED makes, just replace "fixed lens" by the term in question.

:Angel_anim: