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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Apple ProRes Whitepaper Released

Noah Kadner

Noah Kadner

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interesting read, i've always been pleased with the quality of proresHQ and the 4:4:4:4 is looking even better, i know there was a post in another thread on using pro-res as a film out codec;we've done that, just sent in a quicktime and got back a great looking print, can't wait to see 4:4:4:4 in action for green screening; although i don't know why you wouldn't just key off the raw directly, i guess since it's "mathematically lossless" you could set a very decent first light grade out of color before keying!
~T
 
Only the alpha channel is mathematically lossless, the other channels have the same compression as ProRes, pixel blocks and DCT.

What is not clear in the paper is whether it compresses RGB as RGB or converts to YUV. Whenever they mention RGB it is always "from RGB sources".
 
"Apple ProRes 4444 is ideal for next-generation video and the most pristine computer
graphics sources for cinema-quality compositing." This quote from the White Paper is missleading. For some reader "next-generation video" may be read as "multi generation video". ProRes is IMHO not suitable for multi generation video work, hence the the next quote "cinema-quality compositing" is questionable. As Craig mentiones above ProRes4444 has the same compression algorithms than ProResHQ which is IMO a fine codec or many things but surely not heavy composition work for "cinema-quality" what ever that is.

My opinion towards ProRes is totally biased and based on a few projects that I made with ProResHQ. ProRes 4444 is not the salvation for postprodcution, IMO.

Hans
 
Hans von Sonntag said:
My opinion towards ProRes is totally biased and based on a few projects that I made with ProResHQ. ProRes 4444 is not the salvation for postprodcution, IMO.
Click to expand...

Of course not, a compressed file, even with a lossless alpha will never be a full replacement for uncompressed dpx's, it will however give you perfectly good keys for the post house that doesn't need to send out to an fx house just to pull a key; especially if your final delivery is television (even broadcast 1080i HD) or web based. The degrees that even proresHQ allows with something like After Effects w/ keylight is pretty impressive for a codec of that data rate; i can only assume that a full 4:4:4 codec would be that much better, and the addition of the alpha channel is even nicer. not salvation by any means; a convenient codec for in-house grading, yes :001_smile:
 
Interesting

What would be the ideal workflow with DPX, then release in ProRes at the end for Delivery ?

Antoine
 
glue-tools; although dpx's mean a lot of space and a lot of processing power; and proresHQ will still give you a very nice film print at the end of the day!
 
Just finished doing a comparison. Extremely solid.

Haven't done a multi-generational test yet, but at 400% on 4K material rendered out from AE to DPX and 4444, you can't tell the difference by eye. Taking saturation and pushing the hell out of both images, they both react the same. ..and I mean EXTREME - nothing that you would EVER do to an image in CC. This is just to accentuate artifacts. 4444 hangs in there with DPX.

I also added in 422 HQ. No comparison. 422 was WAY more artifact-y and 'digitized' looking whereas 4444 was smooth and clean just like the DPX.

Again, this is just a 'by eye' test pixel peeping at 400% on 4K material.
 
Thanks Kenn,
I will be doing a test for a feature, where I take DPX and 444 of a Green screen sequence. Both keyed with Key light, and then do a film out of both via 2K DPX. I can't wait. The DP has agreed to a blind test, we'll see what he thinks.

I'll post results, when I can.
 
I had an interesting "ProRes" thing happen - suddenly yesterday (Aug 10), all ProRes files I'm rendering out are much brighter than before (ie, last week). In fact, they now match other formats such as animation, AVID DV, etc. whereas previously, they were substantially darker.

Has anyone else experienced this? Has the codec been upgraded and gamma levels changed? I haven't changed anything in my workflow at all to cause this brightness change, nor have I upgraded anything (to my knowledge).
Workflow:
RED into DPX seq for VFX (via Monkey)
Finished VFX DPX seq rendered into ProRes in After Effects (for dailies screening in FCP).

Thanks,
Jenn
 
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