1st Time Pro Camera Purchase

[DDirector]

Hardware and DDirector... this is a REAL NAME Forum...
not being a dick, just letting you know before you get shut down or banned...
The mods have been fast about correcting real names... meantime if you at least go to personal settings and add your real name to the signature line... that can also work.
again, just a heads up. we all agreed to play by REAL NAMES>
thanks

Oh, sorry. I thought it was under my real name.
Dont know how to change it. so, for now its under my signature.

 

[Sergio Perez]

I second the EX1 suggestion, and would add a 35mm adapter, like the Cinevate Brevis. This way, you'll get the DOF you are looking for and at the same time learn to work with interchangeable lenses. The EX1 is pretty capable of great results for the Big Screen and Comercial work. Make sure you also invest in your post production, aquire a Color correction plugin like Magic Bullet to try different looks then, in a couple of years, you'll be ready for a jump. Hopefully by then you've made money with this setup. I have a similar setup, but I use an HVX. I suggest going for the EX because its better in low light, which is a real big plus with adaptor shooting, and has higher resolution. It does have rolling shutter, but its not going to influence your picture in narrative/ Fiction shooting much.

Hope this helps!

 

[DDirector]

but we don't know how good the scarlet cinema performs in low light, do we?

plus, wouldn't the EX1 entire setup be the same, if not a bit more than the scarlet?

 

[Stephen Gentle]

but we don't know how good the scarlet cinema performs in low light, do we?

Scarlet uses a Mysterium-X sensor, which Jim says is "incredibly clean" and had "1.5 stops less noise" in their tests than Mysterium... So you should be able to push Scarlet harder than RED ONE in low light.

 

[Dominic Jones]

No way, mate - ever heard of HDMI? Lower priced monitors should be fine...

Ah, yeah, OK - that's a thought!

Fair point... Although I am, how shall I put this, less than a fan of HDMI connectors for professional work. The few times I've tried using it with a Red have been a disaster with connectors falling out during shots, getting broken (they seem to be very fragile), all sorts.

But yes, it would technically work on a lower budget - my bad!...
Dom.

 

[Sergio Perez]

Scarlet uses a Mysterium-X sensor, which Jim says is "incredibly clean" and had "1.5 stops less noise" in their tests than Mysterium... So you should be able to push Scarlet harder than RED ONE in low light.

True, but the Scarlet is not out yet. And which model of the Scarlet will come out first? I presume we'll not be seeing every model of Scarlet at launch (looking at the already dated release schedule), which adds an extra of uncertainty to the original poster's question.

When I suggested the EX1, I suggested it because he can have it now, for, lets say, 5500 USD, then Add a Brevis for 1800 and include a rails sistem, then invest 3000 USD in a set of Nikon primes (used). Than put aside 1000 USD for SxS card (or go the Expresscard adapter route, which seems to work fine, for 500 USD). This is aprox 10k for a full frame (with adaptor limitations like shutter speed and a bit of a crop factor) camera with a prime set. This seems pretty reasonable and you can get very good results with this setup.

As for the Scarlet, if the 3750 2/3 Fixed lens is one of the first available options, obviously adding a Cinevate 2/3 relay and the brevis would be the way to go, and would somewhat be similar in price with the EX1 option above, but with the added value of a bigger, newer sensor that would mean better lowlight and dinamic range, Redcode Raw workflow, CF recording, etc. The question is, again, when? Will this be the camera to go for someone buying their first pro camera? Personaly I don't think so. The EX workflow is simpler for beginners, with FCP and other major accessible Editors support already well implemmented, while Red is still cutting edge, working excelent for the high end user but still requiring some work for the beginning few.

Also, to fully enjoy the RAW workflow (fast debayer/workflow for 3k+ material) a Redrocket would, I think, be a must. This adds an additional 5k to the economics of the equation. Once again, this is not essential, but is a money saver with the gains in time/ hassle.

Don't get me wrong, I'm obviously awaiting for the Scarlet and am ready to spend my 15k for a Scarlet setup. But I am also an owner of an HVX200 + Brevis setup for more than 3 years, and it has paid for itself a long time ago, and the results I get are pretty respectable for today's high definition standards.

 

[Gerald Menclik]

Ah, yeah, OK - that's a thought!

Fair point... Although I am, how shall I put this, less than a fan of HDMI connectors for professional work. The few times I've tried using it with a Red have been a disaster with connectors falling out during shots, getting broken (they seem to be very fragile), all sorts.

But yes, it would technically work on a lower budget - my bad!...
Dom.

Jarred wote on May 20:

Yes to RED making a small monitor that folds up on top of the camera.... and yes to being able to use the existing RED 5.6" and 7" monitors... and yes to ALL the brains having a HDMI port in case you want to use something else.... hope that addresses some of your concerns



So I personally think there is nothing to worry about, there will be more than one monitoring option ..... :leaving:

 

[Kevin Olsen]

Also, to fully enjoy the RAW workflow (fast debayer/workflow for 3k+ material) a Redrocket would, I think, be a must. This adds an additional 5k to the economics of the equation. Once again, this is not essential, but is a money saver with the gains in time/ hassle.

I am having a hard time seeing how the RedRocket would be useful, even when working with an Epic or Scarlet s35. Since monitors can't display anything above 2k, why would anyone need to see 4k, or even 5k in real time?

I guess I never really understood this, not to mention, I don't see any Scarlet Fixed owners, except those that are B-Roll users, who would pay more for a a RR card than the camera.



KO

 

[DDirector]

I'm planning on going with the non-fixed version, depending on how much the primes cost.

I got another quick question.
Would it still be necessary to purchase a 35mm lens adapter? or would the 2/3" sensor provide enough of a shallow depth of field?

 

[jimhare]

Hey Michael,

You may want to consider saving some money and just getting a Canon 7D for the time being. $1695 and you can get a pretty decent lens for $500-$1000.

This will give you shallow depth of field, some control to get your color right (mainly in camera) and shoots 1080. At least you can be shooting and then learn about what features you want in a pro camera.

 

[DDirector]

Hey Michael,

You may want to consider saving some money and just getting a Canon 7D for the time being. $1695 and you can get a pretty decent lens for $500-$1000.

I'd rather not spend it on that

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Crap. I just lost a huge post. Anyway in summary a second time: $15k might be what you need if you want to start shooting full production without any rentals but I think it's a bit more than is absolutely necessary for a S35 package:

Body: $7k
Prod Pack: $1.2k
CF: $0.5
RED LCD: $1.7k
Power Pack: $1.5k
4x 8GB: $0.6k
Lens Mount: $0.5

That leaves you exactly $2k for some glass. You might be able to get an old PL Zoom or a pile of old Canon/Nikon glass.

But there is a lot of room for cutting back even on that ($6k in accessories) if you just want a base camera and plan on renting up stuff for shoots.

-$1k monitoring. I imagine the small RED LCD will be ~$750.
-$0.5k battery. One battery should be enough if you are just around town shooting or on a sound stage.

$11.5k I would say is the minimum s35 camera package.

Also that might not even be necessary. We don't know how much less power the ASIC version will pull. They show the camera in a stills configuration. You might be able to skip the production pack and use a much smaller battery in a base configuration for another $1.5k less. Cut out the production pack, Cut out the ?CF Reader? and Cut out the battery and you're just buying $1.5k in accessories + The cost of the RED Handle. I imagine it'll be around $1k.

Also if you look at the fixed 2/3" package RED somehow is able to package up a lens and everything needed to record for only $1,250. I imagine there'll be a way to start shooting with less than $2k when scarlet ships.

 

[Chris_Rock]

Gavin, I am in agreement with you. I am budgeting about 12k to 14k for my s35 Scarlet. My plan is to get my power, media, IO, control, LCD, and other odds and ends. I do plan on getting 2 used primes, though they may end up being Nikkor in the end. I plan on renting cine lenses as I need, and some VERY nice glass can be had for about $200 a day. I do need a Mattebox, but I am hoping I can buy one used, or from RedRock, or renting one. I have access to a nice head / tripod, and of course I can rent this as well as needed. There are some VERY nice and cheap dolly systems out there to be had as well. I do think that if RED can do the 2/3s Fixed Lens package for the price they were talking about, we may be able to squeeze more out then what was previously doable. Also I think the Scarlet is going to offer a new economy of scale that RED hasn't had previously. Just look at the direction of moving from FPGA to ASIC. Besides thermal benefits, the cost of manufacturing is much less ( RnD is much higher upfront ) but once you have it going you can mass produce in much higher quantities then before.

I for one can't wait to see the Scarlet s35 and 2/3s roll out :emote_popcorn:
If it turns out that we are all wrong we will re-adjust our figures.

When it comes down to it, I want to have the items I need to get used to the camera on my own time, and when I am ready to shoot on location, I will rent as needed.

 

[DDirector]

AH! This wait is killing me.
I know I will not be able to purchase it probably half a year or more after its released. I just want to know about the camera, whats included, what i need, what I can buy somewhere else to get cheaper, and the final cost!! :cursing:

 

[zane smithe]

I am a bit new into these professional cameras, so I may not know what all these numbers and letters may mean. I am more of a Director, but I am trying to shoot my movies at a cheaper cost. Instead of renting and other expenses.

If this is a legitimate question... then you would be foolish to wait. If you want to shoot movies, go out and shoot them, use a HV30 to learn the ropes. Whatever small amount you spend now will pay back in spades down the road in terms of experience.

It would be a very big mistake to spend all that money on a camera that -
1. Technically advanced, RED cameras typically need an extra person for workflow.
2. Currently unavailable.

If you want to spend your money with RED buy a RED ONE, in the right hands they are amazing cameras... but so are the Canon HV30's.

Personally I'd invest in a 7D to get you educated shooting with real lens etc.